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Post by sickmouthy on May 22, 2009 15:30:01 GMT
Kitz- No we're not, many people have promo copies and high quality leaks. Agreed; I'm going off a high-quality leak, I've not listened to the Myspace version, which, as its streaming, is very likely to be compressed to hell.
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Post by sickmouthy on May 22, 2009 15:32:57 GMT
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Post by the kalashnikov kid on May 22, 2009 15:38:24 GMT
After spending the whole day listening to bits of it whilst writing essays... I've decided it's a lot better than I originally thought. Blackdown stands out for me, Damaris seems like it has potential but is ultimately flawed.
It's a great album, really clever and I was thinking that if someone other than Patrick Wolf had recorded it, everyone would have gone insane with originality.
Also internet tough guy sound argument
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Post by sickmouthy on May 22, 2009 15:43:10 GMT
I suspect that there's not actually any real guitar on this song, and that it's actually all off a sampler / synth / something; would that, and the idea that maybe Patrick is trying to reclaim rock n roll, mediate your response at all? I'm not convinced by the song either, though, though I don't have any overt political issue with it. Hmm, actually, yeah, that would be pretty interesting if there wasn't any guitar. Thanks for suggesting that idea, I'm pretty interested to find out now. I don't understand how the song tries to reclaim rock 'n' roll, though -- would you explain that, please? Reclamation is generally used to describe the action of, uh, reclaiming words that have been used in a derogatory fashion by changing their associated negative value to positive, e.g. 'female reproductive organs,' 'faggot,' etc. If he is trying to change anything about rock 'n' roll, I don't really see how he's doing it, or how he means to accomplish this goal with one song. I think I actually was a bit hasty with my last post -- the lyrics sound really weak, but it's maybe not fair to judge them without having seen the lyric booklet. If I find that what I'm hearing is accurate, though, I'll likely stand by my opinion. edit: Oh, for fuck's sake. C.U.N.T. should not be an offensive word to anybody. To whom do I complain about sexist censorship? It's a collaboration with Alec Empire, who has a very particular sonic history, and quite strident political views too if I remember. I think Empire wrote the music and Patrick the melody / lyrics? So the musical decisions may not be Patrick's at all, and are certainly not entirely his. Surely you can reclaim anything that you feel has been misappropriated? Definitely not just limited to words. Arguably rock n roll has a very queer history too? It began very much as an outsider's music, just look at Little Richard. Then of course there's the innate homoeroticism of the whole band-as-gang experience, 4 young boys together playing each other's instruments in a van. Then there's Bowie! Elton John was definitely a rock n roll icon too, before the panto dame stage. Maybe Patrick's trying to reclaim rock n roll as a transgressive, outsider, queer force, from all the stodgy grown-men-in-cars beige of Stereophonics and Coldplay?
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Post by sickmouthy on May 22, 2009 15:46:30 GMT
After spending the whole day listening to bits of it whilst writing essays... I've decided it's a lot better than I originally thought. Blackdown stands out for me, Damaris seems like it has potential but is ultimately flawed. It's a great album, really clever and I was thinking that if someone other than Patrick Wolf had recorded it, everyone would have gone insane with originality. Also internet tough guy sound argument I prefer the descriptor "hard man".
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Post by helwin tins on May 22, 2009 15:50:38 GMT
OK, but a lot of people seem to de disagreeing with you about it sounding good. I can't imagine Patrick set out to make an album that sounds good just to those in the know as it would seem. Regardless of how good those who understand production think it sounds, if it sounds bad to people who don't know as much there's still a problem with it. I agree it's not outrageous to spend money on something you love, but realistically, I also don't think that a 14 year old should have to save up their lunch money to enjoy music. I saved up my lunch money to buy records when I was that age! So did I, but not everyone's that into music. Some people are just casual music fans, and they shouldn't have to listen to something under-parr because they don't want to invest into higher quality equipment. (By the way this article for Stylus is very interesting)
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Post by sickmouthy on May 22, 2009 15:52:48 GMT
I saved up my lunch money to buy records when I was that age! So did I, but not everyone's that into music. Some people are just casual music fans, and they shouldn't have to listen to something under-parr because they don't want to invest into higher quality equipment. (By the way this article for Stylus is very interesting) \ In which case, why should people who DO love music loads and want to spend money on it and enjoy fidelity have to suffer at the hands of bad production in the name of mass appeal?
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Post by jadeface on May 22, 2009 15:53:24 GMT
So, I've obviously missed something. Are we saying the majority of people don't think the album sounds good unless it's on expensive equipment?
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Post by sickmouthy on May 22, 2009 15:54:43 GMT
I think it sounds great on cheap equipment AND expensive equipment. I'm wondering if other people are assessing off the Myspace stream, which is mental.
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Post by helwin tins on May 22, 2009 16:00:55 GMT
So did I, but not everyone's that into music. Some people are just casual music fans, and they shouldn't have to listen to something under-parr because they don't want to invest into higher quality equipment. (By the way this article for Stylus is very interesting) \ In which case, why should people who DO love music loads and want to spend money on it and enjoy fidelity have to suffer at the hands of bad production in the name of mass appeal? I'm not saying they should. I'm saying that it shouldn't sound bad when lisened to on lower quality equipment, not that making it sound good on good equipment isn't important.
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Post by cmj on May 22, 2009 17:50:50 GMT
I think it sounds great on cheap equipment AND expensive equipment. I'm wondering if other people are assessing off the Myspace stream, which is mental. Agree with you 100% here (for once ) I cannot understand how people can bring themselves to first listen to an album on a crappy compressed stream on myspace. If you want to hear it as soon as you can in good quality then download it or get your hands on a promo copy. If not - wait till the album. I'm sure Mr Wolf would not want our opinions of the record to be blighted by the fact that we heard it first in poor quality on myspace.
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Post by atarilover1 on May 23, 2009 10:59:35 GMT
Thanks for the link Sickmouthy i enjoyed the article
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Post by Teen Wolf on May 23, 2009 13:06:52 GMT
Kriespiel - 5/10 kinda hard to rate this one, it's just an intro
Hard Times - 7/10
Oblivion - 6/10
The Bachelor - 8/10
Damaris - 8/10
Thickets - 9/10
Count of Casualty - 4/10
Who Will - 8/10
Vulture - 7/10
Blackdown - 7/10
The Sun is Often Out - 9/10
Theseus - 8/10
Battle - 6/10
The Messenger - 6/10
Overall: 7/10
Wind in the Wires>Lycanthropy>The Magic Position>The Bachelor
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Post by newslang on May 23, 2009 13:35:36 GMT
I'd have to say Wind in the Wires > Lycanthropy = The Bachelor > The Magic Position... I am very biased to WITW, though.
But this could all change once I get my copy of The Bachlor and play it on my stereo. When The Magic Position came out I had it digital first, and yeah, playing it through my stereo speakers for the first time was a totally different listening experience.
I really, really love this album! So much!
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Post by oats on May 23, 2009 16:08:48 GMT
Ha!
Damaris just achieved hero status as the melodic chimes of a passing ice cream van fit perfectly into the chorus.
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Jason
Apparition
Posts: 33
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Post by Jason on May 23, 2009 16:33:17 GMT
I'd say: Kriespiel - none Once again, just an intro.
Hard Times - 7/10
Oblivion - 8/10
The Bachelor - 9/10
Damaris - 5/10 I find it rather whiny and repetitive, honestly.
Thickets - 9/10
Count of Casualty - 8/10
Who Will -7/10 Takes a while to build up, but becomes great.
Vulture - 10/10 I honestly love this song. Blackdown - 7/10 Once again, takes a while to build up. The Sun is Often Out - 7/10
Theseus - 9/10 Pure Beauty. Battle - 6/10 Too low-fi for its own good. The Messenger - 8/10 Nice, happy outro. Overall: 8.5/10 (compared to his music, rather than all.)
Wind in the Wires/Lycanthropy > The Bachelor/The Magic Position.
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Post by jeyaco on May 23, 2009 18:56:13 GMT
I think it is a great great album... I prefer any of the other 3 right now, but it is growing... a lot! Lycanthropy: 9 Wind in the Wires: 9,5 The Magic Position: 8,5 The Bachelor: 7,5... and growing. I really love many of the songs of this album. Anyway it is an album created with energy, strength and believing in his work... and that counts a lot. So, one more time, congratulations Mr. Wolf. Hope to see you soon in Spain... don,t forget us!
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Post by Lemon Bloody Cola on May 24, 2009 1:12:33 GMT
hmm this has been a pretty interesting discussion. Shame I don't have the time to read every word of it, so sorry if I'm re-stating anything anyone else has said.
I've listened to the record a few times and find myself oddly indifferent. It's far from a bad record, it just doesn't particularly grab me whatsoever, I think it could grow with further listens, but to be honest with so many records, films, TV shows and books in the world and so little time nothing has jumped out and intrigued me enough to really dig into this record.
I think to understand where I'm coming from you have to get that while obviously it's limiting and would make John Peel turn in his grave to narrowly pigeon hole myself but 80/90% of the music I like is basically.. pop music, melodic songs with either intellectually or soulfully engaging lyrics. There's nothing in The Bachelor that is really pressing my buttons. Yep, sonically it's a nice enough listen and I'm sure it's a record the other people will build a relationship with and love.. but I don't think I will be one of them.
There is a lack of knock me down with a feather great songs to my ears, it all feels quite fragmented and certainly less accessible and striking than the previous three albums. I've listened a good few times and the songs just aren't seeping into my consciousness at all. The Kate Bush influence is more evident (or perhaps more accurately the folk roots that influenced Kate Bush herself) and it has the air of the second side of The Hounds Of Love in parts.. though obviously not as good.
As for the lyrics, this IS a problem. I was quite weary of Wolf writing political lyrics as it's an extremely hard thing to write about without embarrassing ones self (I can only think of a very few songwriters capable of writing well on the subject) baring in mind in my view Patrick has never been a "good" lyricist when his wordsmithery is placed under a cold analytical light, though his words had a soulful kick and sincerity that meant it didn't really matter much. I feared he would stretch himself beyond his ablities and deliver a cringe-factor worthy of Nicky Wire. Well the good news is, he hasn't. The bad news is he's avoided it by sticking to "politics" of the must basic Duplo brick pre-sixth form variety possible. I'm sorry to sound so sneery and patronising, but to be perfectly honest my thoughts listening where "maybe this just isn't aimed at my age group?" (I know Sickmouthy and Debs are older than me and might pull me up on that!... also yes that takes some nerve coming from a guy with a fucking Skins avatar)
The biggest offender I think is Battle, in my mind the only out and out appalling song Patrick has put his name to. Not even dwelling on the fact that musically the song sounds like some annoyingly "in your face" thing that would soundtrack a head ache inducing scene of a fuck load of cars exploding or something in a risible action movie but GOD the lyrics! I dunno I'm being too cynical, if I was 15 and first discovering strong feelings on issues of my sexuality or homophobia in general perhaps I would find it empowering, but ahh it's just shitty "goodies vs baddies" slogany (slogan politics can be good, not this, but it can be) short sighted, one dimensional identity politics. Also "attack the conservative!" (?!) I wonder what Master Wolf could share with the class about his views and knowledge on the varying strands and ideas behind political conservatism? That is nit-picky, but yes homophobia is inherent in some schools of conservative thinking, but well there's things about contemporay liberal thinking that infuriate me as much as conservatism and I would avoid making a statement as sweeping as "attack the liberals!" unless I knew darn well I could back it up.
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Post by Xteenuh on May 24, 2009 1:44:59 GMT
I agree with you there Josh, that "attack the conservative" line has been bothering me for the same reasons, but Battle is my least favorite song on the album... not just for the lyrics but also because the actual sound of the song just doesn't fit with the rest of the album. I like diversity of sound in an album but I feel like Battle just didn't really work with it. I do however like the fact that he went for this type of new sound with that song but hopefully he'll do something better with it in the future. I only really like the "BATTLE! BATTLE!" shouting bit in it.
On the contrary, though, the song Blackdown has been growing into a favorite of mine, it's beautiful and I love the lyrics in that one. Oblivion has been growing as well.
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Post by horrorshock666 on May 24, 2009 2:03:45 GMT
Personally, after a good few listens, i think this is a fantastic album overall.
Thickets is amazing, and although it is repetitive in places, lyrically and musically, and also vocally, i think its one of the best songs on the album, and will certainly be one of my favourites for a long time. It does however, remind me a little of The Lord of the Rings, which isn't a bad thing i must say, but the whole spoken intro by Tilda really reminds me of the whole 'I Feel it in the water' dialogue for some reason. Also, at times i can imagine scenes of the Fellowship climbing mountains etc.
Anyhoo...
Oblivion is also a stand out for me, and one which people i have directed to Myspace seem to take a shining to too. I don't think Tilda's voice is annoying or not needed as some people have said, i think it does add some hope to the song, and the 'What are you SO afraid of?' line to me is really memorable (i've quoted it in everyday conversation since listening). I also think the beat is really good!
The Sun Is Often Out for me is a song i found i could easily listen to again and again, although the subject is a difficult one, i love the strings on it and think his vocals are really strong. I think its a very personal song also, and one of the songs on the album that is the most simple yet effective. I feel it will be a song that will grow and grow on me.
Theseus is brilliant, and although i do love the old acoustic version, i feel vocally he has notched it up a level with the recorded one. I will admit, Tilda's voice on this one does become a little tiresome, and i can't see the hope as such other than the first introductory lines, but i can't fault this song at all and i am pleased i've not been let down expectation wise.
The Messenger is certainly a song i keep listening to a fair few times more than others. I love it, pure and simple. Its a very positive ending for quite a lyrically negative album, which makes me appreciate it all the more for that.
Who Will? i prefer when i heard acoustically on the video blog. Theres nothing wrong with the recorded version as such, and i feel its still very strong, but i liked it more stripped down and simple.
The Bachelor is also great, and i love Eliza on it. I feel the vocals of the two of them fit really well together, and i can't decide yet if she is meant to be the voice of depression or something to be the opposite of Tildas soft spoken voice... but im probably just in cuckoo land with that one. Overall a very strong song on the album.
Count of Casualty, i still can't quite get my head around yet. It seems to really break up the theme of the album up to that point with the exception of maybe Hard Times, and i don't know. I think it will take more time to fully sink in and until i can appreciate it.
Battle... Now this seems to be the one alot of people dislike, and i agree somewhat with some comments made. However, i do think its a risk he took, and i like that he made a risk and tried something different. I dislike the vocals at the beginning, theres something weird about his voice, but in general its not a terrible terrible song, sure it has its bad points, and i dont think it fits very well on the album, but it was something different and i'm all for artists taking a risk. I also feel that the message behind the song, although maybe not done in the best way and lyrically as good as other artists have put it in the past, has good intentions and significant meaning to what Patrick must have felt at the time of writing. It seems to me like a song i would have needed when i was younger, just for the whole vibe of it, the anger, the message of 'I am who i am, try and put me down!' kind of thing. Overall, i dont think it fits, but it has its place in the story he is telling on this album.
Oh... i almost forgot Blackdown! Another strong song on the album for me, and lyrically i really like it. I feel the bridge between the first half and the upbeat part is a little long and drawn out, but its a good build up to the folky bit at the end.
And then theres Vulture of course. Certainly not a strong point on the album for me, and a song which sticks out again doesn't seem to fit musically but fits perfectly lyrically. I really think this song will be great live though, and know when that first beat kicks in i will go a little crazy and jump around. I do think however, and this may not be a popular view, that this song should have been changed with The Tinderbox on the album and Vulture be a b-side that can be played live. I just think Tinderbox is far too fantastic and should have had a place over some of the songs i less liked, but its part of the story anyway so i guess thats just me being picky.
Overall... I love it, and im glad to say im not dissapointed after the long wait and anticipation. I think compared to the other albums, yes its different, but i think it stands up to the past work as an album i will listen to again and again for many years to come. I have no particular order of preference album wise, but as with alot of people, The Wind In The Wires will always be an album that is fond in my heart and one which i will love forever, but i do think this is a great new chapter to the story so far.
(P.S Sorry its so long!)
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