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Post by sickmouthy on May 17, 2009 7:51:03 GMT
Stop using the word "overproduced"! Also, stop it with the tautology. But Damaris IS overproduced. It just sounds lethargic and bloated. Can we not talk in absolutes about subjective perceptions, please? Especially when your use of terminology is ill-defined. A few pages ago I made a post about what "production" is. The recording, mixing, and mastering of Damaris, like the rest of this album, is, to my ears (which, without typing my CV out, are pretty respected by a few people), pretty damn awesome. I'd suggest that you don't like the arrangement; a very different thing. Also, what you hear as lethargic and bloated I hear as stately and compelling. Horses for courses. cmj, I think you need to get over yourself a little; "I think differently to the majority on here" blah blah blah like your preference for albums that "flow" or "work as cohesive works of art" or are just sequenced well are superior; artwork as important; etc etc: this isn't some rare and precious opinion, dude - it's the prevailing thread of music criticism for over 40 years. It's what everyone over the age of about 27 and into music thinks, pretty much (some poptimists excepted). You're aware that a lot of musicians spent the 70s making bloated concept albums, right? You know the back stories behind Revolver and Pet Sounds and Sgt Pepper? You know that Led Zeppelin didn't release a single until 1998 or whenever because they thought they were "above" that (ditto post-Syd Pink Floyd). You know that punk tried to stop people making bloated concept albums by focusing on the single again, right? Until the punks started making cohesive artistic statements / concept albums themselves, that is. Downloads / file-sharing is exactly the same thing; removing music from the hierarchy / tyranny of enslavement to sequencing and artwork (and, by extension, capitalist market forces; perhaps). Until, that is, that it became as quick to download a whole album as it used to be one song. Until iPods got colour screens and the coverflow function. Etc etc etc. My "favourite" album, such as I have one, is a 45-minute, 6-track post-genre "song-cycle" thing without songs, where the first 3 tracks are sequenced together as one long pseudo-classical "movement". My favourite single is Groove Is In The Heart by Dee-Lite. Room in my life for both. More than enough. The Bachelor may not be as obviously constructed around a narrative as WITW (to you) (yet) but that doesn't mean that the sequencing is haphazard - having read Patrick's write-up of what each song is about, is definitely structured around a narrative, WAY more than The Magic Position ever was. Does it put that fact across as well as WITW? Probably not, to my ears. But, to my ears, it's also consistently stronger in terms of songwriting, arrangement, and recording than every other album he's done. Are you allowed to not like it? Yes. Should you talk about personal opinions in absolutist terms? Probably not; it makes you look like both a killjoy and an idiot. Is The Bachelor objectively "good"? No such thing as objectivity unless you first spend a long time precisely qualifying your measurement criteria, your metrics, your comparators. And even then you can only be objective about certain aspects. Quality is pretty much indefinable. But I think it's a fucking great record. Here are some kittens:
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Post by cmj on May 17, 2009 10:03:06 GMT
Wow, what a response. Haha. Well I guess you should be able to see where I'm coming from then, even if you don't agree with me. Everything posted was just my opinion - if I seemed absolute in my ruling then I'm sorry; it was never intended that way. And I haven't read Patrick's write up of what every song is about - hence the reason I said I may well be able to enjoy it more when I get the album. After your comments on Patrick's narrative I look forward to being able to read it. And kudos for that post - my first ever use of the "Exalt" button has been made today.
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Post by dumbnoteclectic on May 17, 2009 10:55:34 GMT
But Damaris IS overproduced. It just sounds lethargic and bloated. Can we not talk in absolutes about subjective perceptions, please? Especially when your use of terminology is ill-defined. A few pages ago I made a post about what "production" is. The recording, mixing, and mastering of Damaris, like the rest of this album, is, to my ears (which, without typing my CV out, are pretty respected by a few people), pretty damn awesome. I'd suggest that you don't like the arrangement; a very different thing. Also, what you hear as lethargic and bloated I hear as stately and compelling. Horses for courses. You have a point, I think my sentence missed the vital "in my, quite frankly, unimportant opinion". But I don't think you need to quite unsubtly allude to your 'importance'. *shrug* I liked the kittens.
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Post by newslang on May 18, 2009 14:33:54 GMT
I'm not going to rate it now that I've heard it (it's on the myspace if anyone hasn't seen yet), but what are all you saying about Damaris?! It's perfect! Also love The Bachelor, Thickets, Oblivion, the Sun is Often Out.... wow ... this whole album is so great. Not sure about 'Battle.' It kind of shoots out of nowhere... I'm pleasantly surprised how folk-y the album is.
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Post by jay on May 18, 2009 14:51:36 GMT
i am in love with blackdown.
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Post by TiaraStripes on May 18, 2009 16:43:09 GMT
I really, really, really love it. I've made myself late for work listening to it through this afternoon. And I'll listen to it again when I get in. The Sun is Often Out is heartbreaking, Blackdown, the Messenger, Oblivion are total highlights. I think it's incredible.
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Post by dot on May 18, 2009 16:53:28 GMT
I've listened through once on the myspace and generally like it. A few of them e.g. Damaris I want to get rid of the electronics/drums. I really like The Bachelor and The Sun is Often Out (it made me cry) and I found that Vulture sounded better in the context of the album. That beeping noise in the beginning of Theseus annoyed me (the one that sounded like a phone going off), but other than that I enjoyed the version (was worried I wouldn't after so long of listening to the other one). I still don't like Battle (didn't like it live) and don't feel it fits in with the album, especially after something like Theseus. Anyway I will probably come back with more comments after I have listened to it through a few more times.
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Post by jay on May 18, 2009 16:57:13 GMT
That beeping noise in the beginning of Theseus annoyed me (the one that sounded like a phone going off), but other than that I enjoyed the version (was worried I wouldn't after so long of listening to the other one). fun fact: it is a circuit-bent mobile phone.
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Post by dot on May 18, 2009 17:04:59 GMT
Really? That's interesting..I did think it sounded like a phone. It mostly annoyed me because I thought something was beeping on my computer at me so I started looking through all my internet tabs trying to work out where this strange noise was coming from .
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Post by Debs on May 18, 2009 19:36:17 GMT
i am in love with blackdown. Does it make you want to link arms with someone and swing each other round at around 4 mins 15 seconds too?
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Post by Tasha on May 18, 2009 20:03:59 GMT
I love it more and more each time I listen to it, definitely not disappointed! Brilliant! ;D
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Post by jay on May 18, 2009 20:21:51 GMT
i am in love with blackdown. Does it make you want to link arms with someone and swing each other round at around 4 mins 15 seconds too? hell yes. i'm looking at you, birdy.
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Post by fromanewworld on May 18, 2009 22:22:50 GMT
it sounds like a million dollars and has made me love him. liked lycanthrpy a lot, but this is amazing. i bough shares in the sodding thing. listened to it 5 times in a row and believe me that is a lot for me.
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Post by verajean on May 19, 2009 15:45:10 GMT
What in the name of FRIG has he gone and done? im absolutely gutted id give it a 5 and really thats being overgenerous! Prehaps its because i listened to the megamix a little too much but none of the songs in their entierity seem so live up to the expectations i had when listening to those snippets. although admittedly there are some decent tracks oblivion, the bachelor, the sun is often out and theseus (though i could strangle tilda swinton!) to me the songs together as a whole album just dont feel right! theres no flow. its as if ive set patrick wolf to random on itunes. i duno if this is maybe because is was intended as a double album and hes tryed to divide the songs by concept but the results are really dissapointing.
and though i am slowly begining to forgive the anthemic cheesyness of the chorus in hard times! (why couldnt it all have been lovely and choral like the bit at the end?) there will never be any forgiving battle! a song that didn't origionally transfer on to my itunes with the rest of the album. (i should have taken it as an omen really!) once i realised i was missing said track i got rather exited! i think for a few minutes i was compleatly convinced that it was the key that i was missing! it was going to be this magical song that would unlock something and somehow transform the album into somthing magnificent and lovable instead of just alright. ah how wrong i was! i have listened to it over and over on repeat for more than 20 times willing for my brain to understand why there is a song on there that sounds like it was penned by jezz and superhans from the peep show, for the theme music for grand theft auto. But i still dont understand and the strange thing is though i am compelled to delete it i cant! patrick put it on there and i listen each time allthe way through transfixed by the sh***yness. it has however turned the messenger which id previously thought boring into a tune of beautiful relief!
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Post by tarantella on May 20, 2009 2:18:08 GMT
^ Huh. Well, you know, it's early days. Maybe set it aside awhile, and then come back to it when you feel like you're ready to listen again. I'm blown away. It's totally gorgeous, and I can't really say anything about it as a whole yet because it's so immense. I'm going to have to listen about forty more times before I've got a handle on the thing. I was a bit disappointed at first to learn that he was releasing the two albums separately, but now I think it was definitely the right decision. It'll just provide a good long while for this set to be properly digested. On very first impression, however: "The Bachelor" is stunning. Eliza Carthy is perfect, and doesn't sound like a man at all to me (not that it would be worse if she did). The duet also makes me really happy because it completes the circle of EC --> Watersons --> Idumea --> PW. Tidy. I also love "Thickets," "Count of Casualty," and "Who Will," except for the part in CoC where he yells something like "thousand human liiiiiiiives!!" which is a bit melodramatic and embarrassing. I still resent "Oblivion" for not being "Barghest," a bit, but I'm coming around. I suspect "Damaris" is too gospel-sounding for me to really love, but the churchyness is obviously intentional and something he wanted, so. The second half of the album is going to have to wait until I've absorbed the first half. I am so happy. And it really does make a huge difference how you listen to it -- even just a pair of nice headphones plugged into my laptop changes the sound so much.
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Post by jay on May 20, 2009 11:59:59 GMT
i wish i had something more in depth to say about the album but honestly, i just bloody love it. i reckon i'd give it about a 9. i want to hear the cd and see if there's any difference in the quality of sound between that and the myspace stream... obviously there must be, and i'm looking forward to some pure, sonic sound.
having said that, my rating might be considered a little hasty. i've only listened to the stream about 5 times now. but i find myself enjoying every single song incredible amounts when it's on, and i don't skip any songs. i listen to it all the way through. it's rare i do that to an album, that's how i know this one is special.
oh yeah, and i can definitely hear the cheesiness of damaris, but currently i'm enjoying it. it kind of reminds me of my heart will go on, i hear other people are likening it to viva forever and that's cool with me. ;D
battle is the only song that makes me feel a bit odd. live, it's fucking ace. it has a different feel on the recorded version, i can't really describe it. it's just lacking that crowd oomph.
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Post by the kalashnikov kid on May 20, 2009 13:48:59 GMT
Well I just finished listening to the MySpace stream, because I'm too cheap to sponsor in on bandstocks and didn't know whether I even wanted this album in the first place; but the ever resourceful and tactical Patrick thought to upload it to MySpace - thanks boywonder! Or I suppose he's the manwonder now isn't he?
Having seen the opening night of the tour in Northampton before actually listening to any of the new album, save for Vulture, I suppose I was a bit more biased towards the album. I remember at the show I was disappointed with the actual sound of the songs, the style and the melodies, but the overall presentation and the way they were performed swung it for me. So to listen to the digital versions was going to be interesting to say the least.
Firstly I think Tilda Swinton is a moot point, she adds nothing to it for me by being there, and the album could easily have forgotten about her and it'd be the same. Because of this there is so much that I could insult about what she did for the album (the ultra-camp, over-dramatic, sexed-up pretentious narration, 'Voice of Hope', oh dear) but instead I'm just putting her aside and ignoring her.
I've been running through all the genres ever conceived by man to try and think of something that applies to The Bachelor, alt pop, pop rock, indie rock, electro pop, electro rock, folk rock, electric folk, Judas anyone? The album gracefully combines all of those and becomes, to me at least, similar to the sound of a thousand Irish robots supporting Van Halen on the streets of a dishevelled and isolated London, complete with MPs scratching around on the floor for lost expenses and a Parliament with now really 'too many fools in power'.
And that's another thing about this album, is he being political? I recall reading an interview with him maybe when he was touring Magic Position, or perhaps he said it at a gig I saw, of him saying this album would have more political lyrics and I can certainly see that. Hard Times; Britain's anthem for the recession. Battle; tackling homophobia in the workplace. Who Will; maybe a belated G20 protest chant? Is it possible that Patrick is trying to recruit us to vote for him in the European elections, Hell, maybe the General Election! We are afterall the 'Tribe' and it is time for us to revolt! Heck yes, BATTLE.
Patrick's strongpoint has never been sociology, I remember when I heard Wind in the Wires for the first time and it opened with the Libertine, I was worried he was going to talk about how people are treated in England, thankfully this soon flew away (like a Vulture, hah!) and he tackled some of the issues surrounding Cornwall and bad weather. But for the whole of The Bachelor he seems to be switching between isolated love and politics, I wish he'd choose just one to stick with, in my opinion he's better at love and isolation, not manifestos.
Lyrics and subject matter aside, the album has a forceful sound to it, driving guitars, synths, drums and the occassional odd instrument to bring Lycanthropy back in the mix. I take back what I said months ago at the Megamix, this is NOTHING like Lycanthropy. Just by hearing a few Gameboys I made the comparison, this is a similar sound to the Klaxons and a toned down version of The Horrors' Strange House. The songs have the rousing choruses which make for great live potential and iPod walking music, it's just a shame some of the songs are a bit too overambitious. Blackdown is a great song, despite the shameful family plug, but that's what this album means to me, it's all about Patrick Wolf's journey through music. His first album was his musical puberty, and promptly put him nowhere on the map, his second is an exploration with 'baroque pop' and classical influences dealing with his loneliness, and his third is his venture into the open world of commercialism. Clearly the Bachelor means a lot to him.
I believe this is his worst album yet, but by no means a bad album, the songs are fun, exciting and danceable, the themes are interesting too. I'd have hoped for something a bit less pretentious and art housey however.
Judging by The Bachelor, then we can expect a very interesting turn for The Conquerer. Patrick Wolf is the King of reinventing himself, and his music shows this perfectly.
tl;dr: 7-8/10 Best song - Hard Times Best moment - Irish jig at the end of Blackdown, anyone? Worst song - Oblivion Worst moment - Tilda Swift or painfully embarrassing lyrics
You see what A levels do to you? You write reviews for Patrick Wolf albums when you have your exams in two weeks.
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kitz
Libertine
Posts: 86
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Post by kitz on May 20, 2009 14:03:33 GMT
I won't write a long post with a lot of aspects of how I see this album.
I have to confess I used to be a mediocre listener of Patrick's previous works, but after I'd heard this album it really blew my mind and turned me to a big fan. Yes, I'm new, I won't deny it.
You can see I'm not (wasn't) biased at all. Since I've heard it I'm telling EVERYONE around me how amazing it is and how I can't listen anything, but this album. It hardly happens to me, really. Or when it does the result is absolute fantardness.
So I think it's the best album of this year so far! absolutely 10/10!
yes... I think
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Post by jadeface on May 20, 2009 14:04:56 GMT
I will come back after a few listens on the myspace to decide. So far, I am very very glad I waited until he put all the tracks up, so I can listen to them in order. I didn't even listen to the megamix much because I didn't want 30 seconds or so to represent an entire song.
It's very beautiful so far, I'm only at Oblivion.
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Post by voilathestars on May 20, 2009 15:38:58 GMT
I can't even listen to it on myspace, it kind of sucks, well well!
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