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Post by rubedo on May 13, 2009 11:54:54 GMT
The album would have been way better without the choir. Seriously, it completely ruins Damaris and CoC for me. It's a very solid album otherwise, can't really get enough of it after 30+ listens, which is good. But it's not as "coherent" as the previous albums (they sounded like they had a stronger identity, if that makes any sense). Right now i'd say Lyanthropy > The Bachelor = WitW > TMP (i enjoyed TMP a lot, but it really felt like 5 great songs + "pointless fillers to not release just an EP").
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Post by sickmouthy on May 13, 2009 15:10:18 GMT
Which five great songs?
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Post by rubedo on May 13, 2009 17:25:28 GMT
Up to Magpie (included).
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Post by Self Destruction on May 13, 2009 17:25:41 GMT
pointless fillers to not release just an EP. I've never really understood all this hate towards The Magic Position. Apart from maybe The Secret Garden, X and Magpie, it still feels like a fantastic album. This still leaves us with Overture, TMP, Bluebells, Accident and Emergency, Get Lost, Augustine and The Stars as truly outstanding songs, and, true as it is, a few songs that sound not quite finished. Still, it's a very good album, and my second favorite from Patrick. The only thing I don't like about the above songs is that The Stars sounds a little overdone electronic-wise, but it still helps to shape a brilliant album.
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trixie
Libertine
stay blind to my future and fate
Posts: 124
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Post by trixie on May 13, 2009 17:57:16 GMT
pointless fillers to not release just an EP. I've never really understood all this hate towards The Magic Position. Neither I,to tell the truth. I love it all apart from A&E Even the instrumental pieces!I adore Secret Garden,that seems to be hated by everyone.Anyway,opinions are opinions My order of preference could be this: Lycanthropy > WITW > TMP = The Bachelor But I like each of them...I think that he has still to do his perfect album,but also that he has already given us so much till now.
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Post by comaman on May 13, 2009 19:11:45 GMT
To add my 2 cents:
WitW = TMP > Lycanthropy >> The Bachelor
I think THE MAGIC POSITION may very well be his defining masterpiece, where he showcases all his knowledge, style and ability, whilst WitW will be my favourite of his forever. So many memories connected with it... *sigh*
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Post by dot on May 13, 2009 21:58:43 GMT
As for the potential of this album to be a grower; I think the songs are produced in such a way that there's plenty to be revealed sonically on repeat listens (I'm noticing stuff new after a couple of dozen listens - the cutlery percussion on [is it?] Count of Casualty, for instance, or the little processed violin loop in the right channel of the verses of Vulture) (plus it's not mastered at all fatiguingly), and I also think there's enough imagery and interpretation in the lyrics and twists in the tunes to keep you intrigued. There's also, simply, quite a lot of music to get to know here - 14 tracks, 13 of which are full "songs", with no segues or instrumentals. That sounds good, I like how occasionally I can still here something new on the his other albums even though I've listened to them so many times. Though it seems like for some people it has the potential to get slightly better on repeated listenings but not for others, I guess I will just have to wait until June to see properly. I think the discussion about hearing them live first is interesting, as I have heard most of the album live (or on youtube from the bandstocks event). I suspect it will change my impression when first listening to the album. I suspect I will not like the actual album versions as much as when listening to the live versions, even though I enjoyed them, I kept thinking 'this would sound so much better if some of the electronicy beats were not there and the violin parts were louder'. And from what I've heard it sounds like the album isn't like that. But, oh well, I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised. Also in terms of ranking the albums, I don't think I could ever do that, I like different things in each. The Magic Position is probably my least listened to, but it does have a few songs I love. As with WitW and Lycanthropy, I find that I love individual songs on Lycanthropy more than any songs on the other two albums, but I love WitW as a whole album (listening from start to finish) the most.
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Post by sickmouthy on May 14, 2009 7:19:08 GMT
B-b-b-b-but AUGUSTINE! Obviously I don't hang around here very often so I'm not aware of all the internal politics and tastes of people on this board, but I'm both surprised and not surprised by antipathy towards TMP. It's definitely his most artifice-driven record, his most commercial in terms of sound and design, and I could see why some fans don't like that. I think it's pretty great, though, and gave a thoroughly slathering review of it way back when.
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Post by enfantterrible on May 14, 2009 15:25:02 GMT
this is only on one listen so this might all change.. having heard none of the songs before (at all, in any format) i think this is much better than magic position. probably less accessible but still very good. the only problem i have is that you sometimes can't hear patrick's voice on some of the tracks and that a few of them of a little bit cheesy - hard times, damaris. other than that i've really enjoyed listening to it. having been hugely disappointed by TMP i can now enjoy the wolfman again
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Post by dumbnoteclectic on May 14, 2009 16:33:59 GMT
Kriegsspiel - Hard Times - 9 Oblivion - 9 The Bachelor - 8.5 Damaris - 6.5 Thickets - 8 Count of Casualty - 6.5 Who Will? - 7.5 Vulture - 8.5 Blackdown - 7 The Sun Is Often Out - 8 Theseus - 7 Battle - 9 The Messenger - 8.5
I've been a bit generous. But this is probably (on average) lower than what I thought of his first 3 albums.
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hex object
Empress
In the motherfucking house.
Posts: 215
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Post by hex object on May 15, 2009 3:03:38 GMT
I can't understand why so many people don't LOVE Damaris, it's like the best song on that album. Theseus as well.
My problem is (which seems to be happening with all of his releases post-Wind in the Wires) that I only really love/like about half of the album and thus I have no desire to listen to it front to back. This wasn't much of a problem with The Magic Position because I can listen up to The Kiss and then just shut it off because nothing after really stands up to Magpie, Bluebells, and Overture imo. But with The Bachelor I have to skip ahead to the title track, listen until Thickets, skip to Who Will? and then to The Sun Is Often Out and Theseus. So makes it much more difficult for me to want to listen to the album (and I know that I could make a playlist, blah blah but I really doesn't seem like it'd be worth bothering with).
I will say that The Tinderbox got me excited for this record because it sounds like an immaculate representation of his earlier work, but I was sadly let down when nothing on the album really recalls that song. It should have replaced Thickets or The Messenger.
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Post by stentorsrevenge on May 15, 2009 3:33:22 GMT
Thickets and The Messenger are my two favourites... It's all a matter of taste/mood/number of times you've heard it. Damaris was my first love... Now I think it's "pretty good," comparatively.
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Post by cmj on May 15, 2009 10:27:13 GMT
I can't understand why so many people don't LOVE Damaris, it's like the best song on that album. Too overproduced and, as enfantterrible said, cheesey.
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Post by dumbnoteclectic on May 15, 2009 15:28:41 GMT
I LOVE the Hard Times remix by James Yuill, it's so dancepop
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Post by sickmouthy on May 15, 2009 17:10:36 GMT
I can't understand why so many people don't LOVE Damaris, it's like the best song on that album. Too overproduced and, as enfantterrible said, cheesey. Stop using the word "overproduced"! Also, stop it with the tautology.
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Post by cmj on May 15, 2009 19:24:48 GMT
Too overproduced and, as enfantterrible said, cheesey. Stop using the word "overproduced"! Also, stop it with the tautology. I'll stop when people stop saying "I can't understand why people don't love..."
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Post by lastgoodbye on May 15, 2009 20:34:28 GMT
I haven't heard the whole album, but I've heard bits of it over time. Theseus first in its old demo form, Oblivion when it was Barghest a while back, and then Theseus and Vulture live in December first-hand, and I picked up the gist of some of the songs from live videos that have been posted over the last few months, and then comes the singles etc etc.
My excitement for the album has grown over time, certainly, and I think especially so over the last month or two, as the release date comes nearer and promotion starts. I'm writing this 'cos tonight I listened to Hard Times and realised that, although I wasn't that taken with it when I heard the little Amazon clips, I love it now, and I can't wait to get it on my iPod (i.e., get the CD).
The point is, I've grown special attachments to particular tracks, because I've got to know a portion of them naturally over a stretch of time. Every time I experience a tiny bit more of what it's going to be like, it makes it more special.
For me it's brought new meaning to the thing of Patrick not liking illegal downloads, cos he wants the album to be experienced in the proper way: how he wants it to be presented. Maybe that doesn't just mean with a nice front cover and fancy booklet. I know for a fact that, after all this, I will like the album more when I hear it for the first time, than if I jumped the gun and listened to the whole thing through early.
It's the experience of an artist that you're a fan of releasing a new album, isn't it? You experience it along with all the other fans, the album title, the live shows, previews, first-listens, release dates, snippets, ups and downs, and then you get the physical thing at the end.
You guys, maybe if you hadn't downloaded the album early you would like it more. I mean, I completely respect your right to not like it, and I'm confident that there will be songs on it I dislike. I just think there is more to 'liking' an album than getting it as soon as you can, going to some corner of the internet, right-clicking, listening to it through, and making an immediate, clinical, sweeping judgement.
There's more to experiencing an album, is there not? I think I sound a bit hippyish now. And before anyone takes this wrong, I don't actually have a problem with illegal downloads, as long as you buy it eventually etc. which I know everyone will, it doesn't bother me. But it's a theory.
I wonder if the thread like this which will appear after the release date will have happier responses.
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Post by mimicry on May 15, 2009 21:10:11 GMT
The edge and the magic is gone. The reason I loved Patrick was because he created little children's fantasy worlds that you could just get lost in. But this album...it's just music, nothing more. This post may be three pages back, but I haven't been reading this thread since I hadn't heard the album. 1) All albums are just music. And? 2) The man is going to be turning 26. I think it's grand that his music, sound, and image are evolving. Can you imagine him making children's fantasy worlds when he's 50? Moreover, I never heard this children's fantasy business. I heard something immature and raw, a wild countryside. (PS: I'm not attacking, you personally because you've "expressed a different opinion" or whatever. Just questioning these specific opinions.) So anyway-- I haven't listened to The Bachelor much, but I like it. I was perturbed by the "Vulture" single, and it's still not my favorite. But luckily, I was wrong. "The Bachelor" is an amazing track! It's so American and British folksy and very Patrick all at the same time! It makes me so happy. The kind of poppish/electro-y ones, like "Oblivion," remind me vaguely of late-era Siouxsie and the Banshees/The Creatures, which is a good thing. Thickets is beautiful. I tend to skip "Damaris". Overall, I'm still not sure how this album will sit in Patrick's current oeuvre. I like it better than TMP, which had to grow on me. WITW is still my favorite, but it's also my favorite album of all time. I have no issues in regards to "production" per se. I think "over produced" and "under produced" are kind of thrown around as buzzwords to explain a kind of sound-- a lot of times "indie" music (ugh, what a word) is supposed to be "under produced" because it's just some guys jamming in a studio apartment and can only afford to record things on an answering machine tape; it's just the recording industry keeping them down, man! (I remember reading a book about No Wave, and I think Lydia Lunch was describing how these bands met Brian Eno and were really weirded out because he was, like, a producer, and their ideas about what these songs should sound like did not mesh at all.) tl;dr: The Bachelor is a grower, not a shower (maybe?). Also, the track "The Bachelor" is absolutely amazing. One last thing re: the back half of TMP: Get Lost! Theremin! Perfect happy summer song! (swooon, theremins)
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Post by cmj on May 16, 2009 10:53:36 GMT
The edge and the magic is gone. The reason I loved Patrick was because he created little children's fantasy worlds that you could just get lost in. But this album...it's just music, nothing more. This post may be three pages back, but I haven't been reading this thread since I hadn't heard the album. 1) All albums are just music. And?Ah, you see this is where I think different to the majority on here. Albums are not just music - sometimes to fully appreciate the album you have to have the album sleeve/CD booklet (which is why, although I think this will still be my least favourite Patrick album, it still has the chance to grow on me when I receive the CD) and the track listing is very important - tracks just aren't thrown in randomly (which I feel like they might have been for this album) - Overture is a brilliant start to an album; Lands End & The Towans is possibly my favourite album closer of all time. And all the stuff in the middle has to flow as well. I guess I think about albums as pieces of art - whilst Patrick's songwriting may be no worse (better, in places) than the Magic Position, I don't think I'll ever appreciate this album as a work of art.
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Post by dumbnoteclectic on May 16, 2009 12:17:30 GMT
Too overproduced and, as enfantterrible said, cheesey. Stop using the word "overproduced"! Also, stop it with the tautology. But Damaris IS overproduced. It just sounds lethargic and bloated.
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