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Post by verocs on May 9, 2009 22:00:04 GMT
i think TMP is a more accessible album and it is a good one to get into patrick's music. that is how i got into it anyway. I love lycanthropy the most and WITW least but it is a personal preference and possibly a certain phrase of mind / mood I am going trough at the moment
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hex object
Empress
In the motherfucking house.
Posts: 215
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Post by hex object on May 9, 2009 23:30:23 GMT
but this is less memorable than even TMP. I really disagree with this. TMP was gigantic at the start but it sort of fizzled, mostly because Patrick wasn't feeling it at the time of its release. The "new" fans love TMP, but fans of the first two albums are much more satisfied with The Bachelor, I think. And this is his stable fanbase. I don't think it fizzled, he did his largest tour in support of The Magic Position and seemed to genuinely be behind the material (playing the majority of it at live shows, etc). Or are you talking about it before it was released to the release date? It's funny that you say that fans of his first two will enjoy this one more because I think that The Magic Position takes much more from Lycanthropy and Wind in the Wires than The Bachelor does. From my own perspective as a fan of those albums I can say that I enjoy The Magic Position more than The Bachelor (this may be because of time with the material also). It's like apples and oranges I suppose, however I do think that The Bachelor is really different than all of his past albums which is a good thing in my books.
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Post by stentorsrevenge on May 10, 2009 1:38:37 GMT
I do think it's really different. I really do enjoy the Bachelor, though. For me, however, the new album seems like it really is a part of PATRICK now, whereas he was playing live shows here (playing songs from TMP in late 2007) when he was in a really low time. When I saw him then, he didn't seem to be feeling the music very much, and he appeared to be in another place in his mind. It seems to me that he's really getting into The Bachelor more than he was into TMP, and even that he has come to terms with TMP in a way, as a past phase in his life. This is all just my interpretation of it, but as you say, it really IS like apples and oranges.
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Post by cmj on May 10, 2009 10:15:20 GMT
I do think it's really different. I really do enjoy the Bachelor, though. For me, however, the new album seems like it really is a part of PATRICK now, whereas he was playing live shows here (playing songs from TMP in late 2007) when he was in a really low time. When I saw him then, he didn't seem to be feeling the music very much, and he appeared to be in another place in his mind. It seems to me that he's really getting into The Bachelor more than he was into TMP, and even that he has come to terms with TMP in a way, as a past phase in his life. This is all just my interpretation of it, but as you say, it really IS like apples and oranges. Well when I saw him on TMP tour (at Latitude 07) it was one of the greatest shows I'd ever been to. He put so much energy into it and his entire band loved it as much as he and the crowd did. When I saw him this year though it wasn't really there, his band weren't feeling it and apart from a few drunk twats who were shouting "we love you Patrick" every second, I don't think the crowd were really feeling it either.
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Post by stentorsrevenge on May 10, 2009 12:32:40 GMT
Hahah, well I guess everyone has a different perspective then. There are always those fans, aren't there? They are an embarrassment. Especially the, "take it off!" ones.
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Post by Self Destruction on May 10, 2009 14:29:23 GMT
Kriegsspiel - 4 - As far as Patricks instrumental tracks come, this isn't a particularly imaginative one. Sounds like the volume knob on the recording console was just pushed up as a synth was played...nothing special. Hard Times - 7 - It works well as a good opening track, but it sounds like alot of space is left in the track, especially around the violin riff and the verses. Sounds a bit overproduced, yet underproduced at points as well. Oblivion - 8 - A really good track, but again, it's the production that ruins it for me. This would easily be a perfect 10 if there wasn't so much left out of the track. Gutiars are the highlight for me, very surfish =D The Bachelor - 10 - This, for me, is the most important song on the album, and the song that saves the album from a casual listen. Absolutely perfect in every way. Where the first 3 tracks sounded a little empty, this sounds perfectly produced. Damaris - 4 - I was never a fan of the live version, and the choir makes the song very impersonal. If this were on Lycanthropy, I imagine it would have been more in your face and made up of choirs of Patricks voice, but alas, here it is...a very repetitive drag that leads rather nicely into... Thickets - 8 - I first heard this song and thought "What a load of repetitive nonsense", but as I listened more and more, it really stuck with me. The lyrics are perfect, and the way that new instruments are subtley added into the mix as it goes on is perfect Count of Casualty - 7 - Very good live version, this track, but the electronics are far too low in the mix to save this, and the choirs too high. The song again sounds empty when the string quartet kicks in for the instrumental. Who Will? - 8 - Opening lyrics aside, this track is very very good. Definately a good "slow" song amongst the harshness of COC and Vulture. An amazing repeat track, that's for sure. Vulture - 4 - Okay, I'm just going to say one thing about this song: It does not fit this album AT ALL Blackdown - 5 - Although the story behind the song is very nice, the song itself is a bit dull and the second part just drags on and on The Sun Is Often Out - 6 - The verses are the highlight, but the bit at the end "The sun, the sun, is often out" doesn't appear to fit in with the rest of it. It could use a bit of extra care over the instrumentation, the string quartet on its own doesn't fit very well. Theseus - 3 - Amazign live song, but on here it sounds overproduced, boring, and Tilda is at this point being used as mere backing singer. The outro of this song in particular, is just plain terrible, and I want to like it! Battle - 8 - I think of this song as "Tristan" from WITW. It's the moment of sheer relapse amongst the rest of the ambient style present on the rest of the songs. It definately bridges the gap between Theseus and The Messenger quite well The Messenger - 8 - Again, a brilliant track that needed a little extra care over the instrumentation. I'm not sure what the deal was with electronics on this album, but apart from Vulture, they are pushed right to the back of the mix, and it's present on this song as well. The Patrick standard "Epilogue" style track is tacked onto the end of this, a little variation on the Messenger not unlike "Finale".
I've never liked how people just give a number instead of stating reasons...so I usually give reasons why it got the rating it did!
BTW, I didn't download it, I got hold of a promo copy =D
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Post by cmj on May 10, 2009 17:31:38 GMT
selfdestruction, love you for your love of the Bachelor (the song). Wouldn't go quite to ten, but it's certainly the best on the album!
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Post by sickmouthy on May 10, 2009 17:37:25 GMT
I don't think the terms "over" and "under" production are at all useful in the way that they're being used by a few people here. The Bachelor is not "over-produced" in the way that, say, a Keane record might be, where every instrument is compressed and mixed in such a way that all the timbre and "edge" vanishes and it sounds very shiny and unreal; to me the instrumental timbres, separation, etc, on The Bachelor are fantastic - everything is distinct, yet interacts, which to me says that it's very well recorded and mixed in terms of pure sonics. The Magic Position I think suffers from this occasionally, slightly over-inflated instruments that "bleed" into one another on occasion, and can get lost in the mix. I think that's largely due to the mastering, which, judging by the sleevenotes, was a troublesome affair.
What I'm understanding when people use the terms "over" and "under" production is that they don't like the arrangements - that things are either too minimal (under-produced) or too busy (over-produced; i.e. all the strings / choirs / etc on some tracks). This is a very different thing from the recording or mixing (although obviously the mix affects how you hear the arrangement). The word "production" as I understand it, means the whole shebang; arranging, recording, mixing, mastering. The latter three of which are fantastic on The Bachelor. The former is, obviously, more a matter of taste. But, as far as one can be objective about these things, The Bachelor has all the hallmarks of a "well produced" record that most people in the know would agree on.
I also say again; what are people listening ON? I've got a VBR rip of this which I assume comes from the same original source as cmj's, and I've listened to it on a set of cheap JBL computer speakers, a B&W Zeppelin speaker system, and a pair of AKG headphones running off a dedicated headphone amplifier and an off-board DAC taking an optical cable from an iMac. It sounds good on the cheap speakers, great on the Zeppelin, and fucking orgasmic on the AKGs.
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Post by cmj on May 10, 2009 18:25:08 GMT
I don't think the terms "over" and "under" production are at all useful in the way that they're being used by a few people here. The Bachelor is not "over-produced" in the way that, say, a Keane record might be, where every instrument is compressed and mixed in such a way that all the timbre and "edge" vanishes and it sounds very shiny and unreal That's exactly what I think.
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Post by sickmouthy on May 10, 2009 20:44:39 GMT
I don't think the terms "over" and "under" production are at all useful in the way that they're being used by a few people here. The Bachelor is not "over-produced" in the way that, say, a Keane record might be, where every instrument is compressed and mixed in such a way that all the timbre and "edge" vanishes and it sounds very shiny and unreal That's exactly what I think. That's fair enough but it's really not how I'm hearing the album.
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Post by cmj on May 10, 2009 22:40:12 GMT
The edge and the magic is gone.
The reason I loved Patrick was because he created little children's fantasy worlds that you could just get lost in. But this album...it's just music, nothing more.
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Post by stentorsrevenge on May 11, 2009 3:07:53 GMT
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Post by sickmouthy on May 11, 2009 6:46:52 GMT
The edge and the magic is gone. The reason I loved Patrick was because he created little children's fantasy worlds that you could just get lost in. But this album...it's just music, nothing more. I think you're talking nonsense re; nebulous undefined terms like "edge" and "magic" having "gone", but even if we accept that this album isn't composed of "little children's fantasy worlds" (which requires the acceptance that the others did, though that's not something I ever got out of his music), then, you know, people grow up, and change, and their work develops, and you cannot expect, or even hope, for them to keep doing the same thing forever.
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Post by cmj on May 11, 2009 10:41:59 GMT
That's not the only thing I don't like; I've said a lot of reasons. I accept and embrace change, I just don't like this album.
(I also love the fact that every time I come on here my karma's gone down even more).
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Post by stentorsrevenge on May 11, 2009 12:47:11 GMT
Yeah, it's a bit immature. You're ALLOWED to not like the album and to speak your mind! I don't think you've said one rude or inappropriate thing. I mean, I'm sad to hear that you think so, but I'm glad you're saying so.
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Post by sickmouthy on May 11, 2009 12:59:26 GMT
Well the whole karma thing's immature, isn't it? You can't implement an immature protocol and expect it be used in mature ways.
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Post by cmj on May 11, 2009 13:15:55 GMT
Yeah, it's a bit immature. You're ALLOWED to not like the album and to speak your mind! I don't think you've said one rude or inappropriate thing. I mean, I'm sad to hear that you think so, but I'm glad you're saying so. Yeah, that's what I thought! Interestingly, my friend who tends to listen to mainstream Radio 1 music said he was really loving the new Patrick Wolf album; it seems to work well as a collection of fairly accessible Patrick Wolf songs, as opposed to a true album. If he likes it, I hope the Radio 1 controllers will too (thus more album sales, and then Bandstockers might break even!)
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Post by sickmouthy on May 11, 2009 13:47:17 GMT
If you keep using lousy pseudo-pejoratives to describe this album ("collection of fairly accessible Patrick Wolf songs, as opposed to a true album" maaaaan, as if you were describing someone with leprosy), than I'm gonna keep smiting you.
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Post by helwin tins on May 11, 2009 14:10:56 GMT
Wow, get over yourself.
The album's still yet to grow on me, and at this point I'm pretty sure it's just a non-starter. Too contrived, messy and detached. What a shame. I was so sure that some of the tracks would end up as new favourites.
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Post by cmj on May 11, 2009 14:29:27 GMT
If you keep using lousy pseudo-pejoratives to describe this album ("collection of fairly accessible Patrick Wolf songs, as opposed to a true album" maaaaan, as if you were describing someone with leprosy), than I'm gonna keep smiting you. Sorry for not having my head up Patrick's arse.
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