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Post by fabbit on May 22, 2007 20:54:40 GMT
And the death penalty is too expensive! So are prisons. I'm not for the death penalty, aside from thinking that all child molesters should be killed, but prisons are expensive. More than half the people in them are there for things that shouldn't even be illegal. Prisons aren't supposed to be punishment, at least not in the States. They're supposed to rehabilitate criminals so they can be reintroduced into society as "proper citizens". My mum works in two prisons in the States - one federal, one state, both high security. All the prisons do is give them a lot of time to think and either a) turn their life around or b) get worse and engage in criminal activities in the prison. I forgot what I was saying, but prisons = expensive. They get TV, education, books, etc. Instead of saying, "we'll just put all the people we consider morally bankrupt in here and ignore them", we need to address the cause.. not just the effect. I probably make little to no sense. Yes, prisons are expensive, but when you look at the prices spent on keeping one inmate in prison for life versus the death penalty, the death penalty costs more every time. And really, they don't need TV.
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Post by fabbit on May 22, 2007 20:56:23 GMT
I thoguht of something else: It frustrates me that some religous people think that they can pick and choose things out of their religion and believe they are free of sin. I sometimes think you should be fundamentalist or nothing - but I realise that that is being a bit black and white about it... Yeah I totally agree in a way. Thats why despite believing in God, being fascinated by the Bible and utterly revering the teachings of Jesus Christ I'm not a Christian. I just hate people who turn their religion into cosy supposition oh and wishy washy new age "spirituality" Ironically it's my reverence for Jesus Christ that very much informs my views on the death penalty. Jesus stopped the execution of an adulteress on the grounds of "he who is without sin let him cast the first stone" I also believe in the possibility of redemption for even the most heinous criminals. Therefore unless we can find all knowing, sinless people to execute others, I believe that taking another humans life is quite outside of human beings jurisdiction. I kind of left my church because of how i think they are VERY hypocritical with all their beliefs compared to how they act. Most churches I've been to have been like that once you really get to know them. I prefer worshipping in private.
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Post by fabbit on May 22, 2007 20:57:50 GMT
They already do, in the US anyways. Thats what those rehab places in nowhereland are for. Don't think they're run that well though. Actually, I know they aren't. No it's not. It's widely ignored in the US, and when it is acknowledged.. it's with a slap on the wrist in jail. Very rarely are they given psychological help aside from a psych-eval, unless they seem particularly odd.. like serial killer odd. The number of re-offenders for child molestation is amazing. Uhhh...yes they do. For child molestors, anyways. My (ex)uncle used to work in one. So yes, they do exist. But then again, he could have made that up, like everything else he ever said to my family. But really, they do exist.
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Post by Xteenuh on May 22, 2007 21:01:50 GMT
Josh, I really like your point there. They should definately get help as they were merely and unfortunately born with these dangerous desires, just as others with mental instabilities were. But the thing is, what if they are so crazy that they don't even think to seek help? That they don't realize that they have a problem and that what they want to do to children is wrong and very hurtful? Then, they rape a child. And they're locked away in prison before they could have been stopped. Yes they should get help from a specialized doctor of some sort at that point too but I can imagine that even if they do get to a point where they seem "cured" or whatever, you can still never tell which of them would do it again if they then got released. Because it is a mental illness after all. But yeah more to your point, they should definately be offered help.
I'm surprised no one's talked about abortion yet. I have extreme confusion on this subject, mainly because it has a lot to do with religion/belief in fate. Anyways, here's my explaination. At first, I always think that abortion is wrong. It is murder, basically. Just because you're a fetus doesn't mean you're not there and not alive. You damn well are. If you really can't care for the child, put it up for adoption. This is when I think, "That child came because it's probably supposed to be here. So don't ruin it." But then I consider the people who's pregnancies resulted from rape, and all the emotional trauma that must cause on top of it, and so I guess I could understand why they'd want an abortion. Especially if it was rape by a close relative or something. And then they actually get the abortion. And then that's when I think "Well... if they did that, then was death the fate of the unborn child? Or did they mess around with fate, if fate exists? But then if fate exists, then that abortion was meant to occur, as whatever is occuring in this world is all supposed to happen no matter what it is that's happening... but then, wouldn't that mean there is solely free will ONLY?" And then I get so entirely confused and mind-boggled and refuse to question this subject for another month or so.
Oh but I HATEHATEHATE when a mother kills her baby for selfish reasons, like she just doesn't feel like taking care of a kid at that point in her life. Even though she's got a good salary and can totally raise a healthy child just fine... come on. Look at the mothers in the poorest parts of Africa. They deal. That's just so so disgustingly selfish to me. It's murder for your own convienience.
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Post by fabbit on May 22, 2007 21:03:22 GMT
Legalized abortion lowers the rate of adolescent criminals.
Just sayin'
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Post by karatepop on May 22, 2007 21:03:28 GMT
I don't recall saying the facilities don't exist. I'm saying that for the most part pedophilia is not "treated". Those who act on their desires and assault children are usually just thrown in prison for a while, and then out on their own again.
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Post by fabbit on May 22, 2007 21:04:21 GMT
I don't recall saying the facilities don't exist. I'm saying that for the most part pedophilia is not "treated". Those who act on their desires and assault children are usually just thrown in prison for a while, and then out on their own again. Many of them are because there aren't enough of them, and the ones that exist are full. It's the more severe instances that go there, I think.
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Post by mynameisHughGrant on May 22, 2007 21:04:43 GMT
I have no offensive/controversial beliefs and opinions that spring to mind. although I do agree with what josh said about paedophilia. mental illness is never the fault of the sufferer.
also, I find a lot of catholics to be a bit odd.
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Post by sarah on May 22, 2007 21:04:56 GMT
abortion shouldn't be used as contraception
basically.
i quite agree with GypsyQueen on that
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Post by Xteenuh on May 22, 2007 21:06:22 GMT
Legalized abortion lowers the rate of adolescent criminals. Just sayin' But how is one to know that every child that comes from an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy will turn out a drug-dealing drive-by-shooting thug? What if in the midst of those children is a couple of future great leaders? Once again, the question of fate is brought up. Arggh. I'm done with this subject.
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Post by fabbit on May 22, 2007 21:07:22 GMT
Yes, I am completely against people using abortion, morally anyways. But also, I am against the government regulating it.
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Post by tesla on May 22, 2007 21:08:34 GMT
This is an interesting thread. I can't think of any opinions of mine I'd like to talk about, except maybe the opinion that religious people shouldn't constantly attempt to coax atheists into 'changing their ways.' Heh.
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Post by blake on May 22, 2007 21:09:27 GMT
I find it quite scary that you need a license to drive a car, to own a gun, or even a television but that anyone can bring a life into this world.
I do worry.
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Post by mynameisHughGrant on May 22, 2007 21:09:31 GMT
my friend's sister accidentally got pregnant, kept the baby and if aything it's put her life back on track. I think sometimes the baby can actually help thettenager, not that it's adviseable
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Post by fabbit on May 22, 2007 21:09:46 GMT
Legalized abortion lowers the rate of adolescent criminals. Just sayin' But how is one to know that every child that comes from an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy will turn out a drug-dealing drive-by-shooting thug? What if in the midst of those children is a couple of future great leaders? Once again, the question of fate is brought up. Arggh. I'm done with this subject. Unwanted children rarely have a happy life. Uhhh...but there was a statistic somewhere on this. I must find! But yes, they could be great leaders. Really, why can't you just use adoption instead of abortion? I have my own personal reasons as to why I dislike abortion (and also think it shoudl stay legalized), but they are really personal and I'm not going to say them.
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Post by blake on May 22, 2007 21:11:07 GMT
except maybe the opinion that religious people shouldn't constantly attempt to coax atheists into 'changing their ways.' Heh. ..and vice versa.
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Post by fabbit on May 22, 2007 21:11:25 GMT
my friend's sister accidentally got pregnant, kept the baby and if aything it's put her life back on track. I think sometimes the baby can actually help thettenager, not that it's adviseable That's true in a lot of cases. My boyfriend's mother is one example. Also, my mom's friend's daughter is another example. But they also could end up like those kids on TV, having their parents who are barely adults themselves, giving their 4 year old kids weed and the like.
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Post by karatepop on May 22, 2007 21:11:38 GMT
I'm surprised no one's talked about abortion yet. I have extreme confusion on this subject, mainly because it has a lot to do with religion/belief in fate. Anyways, here's my explaination. At first, I always think that abortion is wrong. It is murder, basically. Just because you're a fetus doesn't mean you're not there and not alive. You damn well are. If you really can't care for the child, put it up for adoption. This is when I think, "That child came because it's probably supposed to be here. So don't ruin it." But then I consider the people who's pregnancies resulted from rape, and all the emotional trauma that must cause on top of it, and so I guess I could understand why they'd want an abortion. Especially if it was rape by a close relative or something. And then they actually get the abortion. And then that's when I think "Well... if they did that, then was death the fate of the unborn child? Or did they mess around with fate, if fate exists? But then if fate exists, then that abortion was meant to occur, as whatever is occuring in this world is all supposed to happen no matter what it is that's happening... but then, wouldn't that mean there is solely free will ONLY?" And then I get so entirely confused and mind-boggled and refuse to question this subject for another month or so. Oh but I HATEHATEHATE when a mother kills her baby for selfish reasons, like she just doesn't feel like taking care of a kid at that point in her life. Even though she's got a good salary and can totally raise a healthy child just fine... come on. Look at the mothers in the poorest parts of Africa. They deal. That's just so so disgustingly selfish to me. It's murder for your own convienience. It's just a cluster of cells. To me, anyway. I don't consider it murder just because it has the potential for life. When I wash my hands I don't cry about being a murderer, for all those poor bacteria I'm killing. There's more to raising a child than having a proper salary. I'd even venture to say that salary is on the bottom of the list. It's quite an emotional undertaking. Women get pregnant at all stages of life, and it's not simply due to not using a condom. The pill doesn't work the way it should for some women; antibiotics cause the pill not to work, and some women aren't told this; rape and incest make up a very small percentage of women who go in for abortions, but it happens.. etc. You just never know until you're in the situation. I think the foster care system is FAR worse than having an abortion before it even has any feeling. I understand that there will always be people who view it as murder, but it should be kept legal if only to prevent illegal abortions and other problems. Sorry I'm not very articulate.
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Post by Debs on May 22, 2007 21:12:21 GMT
Not every woman undergoing an abortion is ending the life of a healthy fetus though. I'd terminate a pregnancy if the baby's expected quality of life was poor. I'd like to reduce the upper date limit on abortion from a truly disgusting 26 weeks down to about 16, mind.
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Post by fabbit on May 22, 2007 21:13:43 GMT
Illegal abortions could have many complications caused by unlicensed doctors and the like.
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