POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD (Morrissey)

[stationtostation]

community.livejournal.com/morrissey_shot/963070.html

Behold the single most reactionary and histrionic piece of "journalism" I have ever read. I personally don't agree with Morrissey's views on immigration, but I'm sorry but when the blow-hard right wing pundits talk about "fascist left" this is exactly what they have in mind. I mean why do all indie stars have to be so frightfully unthinkingly right-on? Why can't Morrissey hold broadly right-wing views on a certain issue if he wants to, without being subjected to this sort of ludicrous hatchet job/spazzy fit?

syndicated.livejournal.com/truetoyounet/47186.html

I found on Livejournal this correspondence between Morrissey's people and the NME including a letter from Conor McNicholas where he makes reference to Morrssey's comments going against the "very liberal world of rock'n'roll" which is laughable enough as "rock'n'roll" currently and possibly always has been based on sexism, fashion and elitism. But to me this shows a marked lack of understanding of the meaning of the word "liberal". My concept of liberalism amounts to accepting other peoples points of view and supporting their right to express them. Not attempting to impose some sort of "liberal" hemogony on as dizzyingly diverse a group as the musical community by "expecting" everyone to hold certain stock opinions and scorning them when they don't.

Love Music, Hate Freedom Of Speech? If NME want to go around implying the "R" word you need to look closer to home. How often do you see a non-white face on the cover of NME bar Kele Bloc Party? I utterly winced at the Love Music, Hate Racism cover they did with some token UK rapper stuck on the cover with the indie stars who stands about as much chance of getting on the cover any other week as Bonnie flippin' Tyler

If theres one thing all this is good for though its stimulating debate and I happen to think that while the culture of a nation is an ever changing process that it would be foolhardy to attempt to halt. British culture as it once was has decayed more rapidly than most. Personally I don't know enough about immigration in terms of facts and figures to know if thats the cause, personally I would put it more down to the fact we share a language with the US therefore the tide of Americanisation of culture has affected these isles more than most (another double standard there, would anyone accuse me of anti-American racism for saying that?!)

[abolishconfusion]

My business teacher used to say "brain dump". It was really annoying.

[Lauren]

Anti-American racism? That sounds funny. I don't think that's even possible. Against a nationality yes, but what exactly is the race of America? It's still quite white, about 3/4. But there are far too many growing minorities to say that there is one single American race.

I need to step away from the census sites. It's become addicting.

[stationtostation]

I think racism directed at Americans is fairly common place and oddly accepted here in England.. I mean so the American government is undeniably a set of twats, but then so is the Chinese government but I doubt the right on leftie elements would get away with going on about "chinks" as much as they get away with the standard "dumb fat Americans" patter..

Anyway, ha side issue.

[Lauren]

Side issues usually tend to catch my attention more than the point at hand.

This has sparked my curiosity. I'd like to read up on England's immigration issues. I only know about immigration issues close to (my) home.

[abolishconfusion]

I think they're right and Josh is racist for not agreeing.

[stationtostation]

abolishconfusion said:

I think they're right and Josh is racist for not agreeing.

Yeah we all know I'm racist, tell the people something they didn't know girlfriend.

[abolishconfusion]

To be honest I haven't read either yet. I don't know if I agree.

[Lawrence]

PC sucks

[irrelevant]

i always thought political correctness was mocked more often than used. eh, but it's the age of frivolous lawsuits and enforcing the destruction of freedom of speech is the only way for some to protect their wealth.

[stationtostation]

Oh god I know this old news now but www.lovemusichateracism.com/news/2007/11/26/keep-fascists-out-of-oxford-union-uaf-demo-against-griffin-irving-next-monday-26th-2/

*headbutts screen* I think Love Music Hate Racism has got to be one of the most asinine organisations in this country. I'm from a predominantly white area of Bradford with a strong BNP presence and I loathe the party to is insidious core. Does that give me or anyone a right to take away their civil right to freedom of speech or "deny them a platform" as this article sugar coats it? No it doesn't.

'there is a world of difference between defending free speech and choosing to provide a platform for fascists. Far from being the champions of free speech history shows that when fascists rise to power they destroy freedom of speech" erm alright then? Did they just seriously put forward what amounts to "two wrongs make a right" as a serious line of argument? Twats.

The answer isn't to deny these people the right to articulate their views, the answer is to have the finest minds around to debate them into the ground therefore exposing their ideas for what they are.

[abolishconfusion]

stationtostation said:

The answer isn't to deny these people the right to articulate their views, the answer is to have the finest minds around to debate them into the ground therefore exposing their ideas for what they are.

Ooh, a classical liberal view. I do agree though, when subjects aren't discussed they become taboo, and that makes them seem exotic and exciting. Discussion is the only way to address discriminatory views, so they can be proven wrong and society can keep evolving, without having metaphorical fascist skeletons in metaphorical closets.

[stationtostation]

I don' t know why it won't let me link to that Love Music Hate Intellectual Integrity article in question but this is pretty much along the same lines.. www.uaf.org.uk/news.asp?choice=71105

This much like the BNP themselves is playing on people's fear and reactionary to the core.

I think I may start a blog dedicated to highlighting attacks on civil liberties by the so called "liberals" of today.

Civil Rights are for everyone, even twats and morons.

[stationtostation]

abolishconfusion said:

when subjects aren't discussed they become taboo, and that makes them seem exotic and exciting.

exalts.

I have seen this come to fruition in my own personal anecdotal experience. At my school being racist was pretty much viewed as the apex of sexy danger and rebellion and a one way ticket to "cool" among the kids, why? Because the authorities made the whole subject so taboo.. I imagine this is a big part of the rise of racism in some areas.

[birdwhistle]

I usually shy away from debates (even the reading of) but I am quite enjoying overseeing this one. That interviewer was such a sore little lamb, wasn't he? It's bewildering.

[stationtostation]

thelordismyalibi said:

abolishconfusion said:

Ooh, a classical liberal view. I do agree though, when subjects aren't discussed they become taboo, and that makes them seem exotic and exciting. Discussion is the only way to address discriminatory views, so they can be proven wrong and society can keep evolving, without having metaphorical fascist skeletons in metaphorical closets.

Im liking this thread.

The denial of freedom of speech for fascists is ludicrous. If what they said had a purpose or a point, then wouldnt it be a valid opinion, and thus worthy of being said? If not, then they have little sway with the public, except for those that have similar ideas or people that are suggestible. If racist views were that much of a threat to society, then why hasnt the BNP had more success?

Heres the (fairly intelligent I suppose) counter to that from Unite Against fascism.
"Millions were murdered in the Holocaust, not because their arguments weren’t good enough, but because those who could have stopped fascism sooner under-estimated the threat that it represented. Many thought its flaws so obvious they could easily be exposed. Once allowed a foothold fascism unleashed its campaign of violence and terror. Those who deny the Holocaust today do so because they wish to repeat it"

Again thats using fear to support a point of view which I don't respect, but I guess it has a point that we shouldn't take a complacent view towards racism and fascism, I agree with that. I just don't agree that behaving like a fascist is the way to battle fascism.

Though I'd say a BNP lead Britain is pretty unlikely (as unlikely as a Green, Socialist or Raving Loony Green Teeth Party Britain due to our electoral system) I do think these people and their views pose a threat. The answer to that threat however is not to become as bad as them.

[pavlovsdaughter]

The NME seem to be treating that Morissey interview as the biggest threat to the UK since the Daily Mail discovered emo. It's ridiculous.

[trainspotter]

I'm an immigrant and I have an NHS dentist! ha, take that Daily Hate

[Deleted]

I loathe the point in the NME article at which they bring up the picture they used of Morrissey with a Union Jack and implied he was using it as racist imagery; if those in power tell you enough that something is racist and must be treated with a sort of fear, then that thing WILL become associated with those connotations. Swastika?

Of course he has every right to say what he wants, and I've read far far worse comments than his. Josh is right, if you start trying to censor things everyone says then it's going to make the do-gooders as bad as any person with far-right opinions. And he doesn't sound like a Tory, a Tory would be far more subtle about any racism they may have, he's being honest about what he sees, which I don't think is out and out racism, even if it was a possibly silly thing to say in the circumstances? (i.e. to such a prominent magazine.)

(There was a headline in the Daily Mail or Express a few days ago that said a strain was being put on the NHS and school system because lots of Polish babies were being born. In case they hadn't noticed, I'm fairly certain lots of babies are being born to people of every nationality, why they chose to pick on the Polish is beyond me (actually it isn't, I'm well aware why they centred on them, but that's besides the point). Besides all that, surely because of our ageing population - in 40 years something like 75% of the population is going to be over 65 - calls for the births of more children? Segregation and resentment is going to be caused by anything that drives the communities further apart, like that - people point out the differences and report things like a woman being asked to take her pig ornaments out of her window to avoid offending Muslims (probably bullshit), or some council referring to the Christmas season as 'winterval', blow it all out of proportion, keep dragging it up when it has absolutely no relevance to anything, and then divisions are created.)

The NME is aware of its status, it knows it can cause a proper fuss with this, it just smacks of sensationalism. They do it a lot, they interview someone then pick up on one particular point, one particular comment made by the interviewee, and kick up a massive fuss around it, and then push them into saying more. They gave him another fucking interview to make him say more and dig an even deeper hole for himself; fine, get him to explain himself, just don't turn into Bill bloody Grundy and goad him into outright saying 'I fucking hate blacks and Asians, burn them all.'

[hark]

sahara said:

I loathe the point in the NME article at which they bring up the picture they used of Morrissey with a Union Jack and implied he was using it as racist imagery; if those in power tell you enough that something is racist and must be treated with a sort of fear, then that thing WILL become associated with those connotations. Swastika?

Of course he has every right to say what he wants, and I've read far far worse comments than his. Josh is right, if you start trying to censor things everyone says then it's going to make the do-gooders as bad as any person with far-right opinions. And he doesn't sound like a Tory, a Tory would be far more subtle about any racism they may have, he's being honest about what he sees, which I don't think is out and out racism, even if it was a possibly silly thing to say in the circumstances? (i.e. to such a prominent magazine.)

(There was a headline in the Daily Mail or Express a few days ago that said a strain was being put on the NHS and school system because lots of Polish babies were being born. In case they hadn't noticed, I'm fairly certain lots of babies are being born to people of every nationality, why they chose to pick on the Polish is beyond me (actually it isn't, I'm well aware why they centred on them, but that's besides the point). Besides all that, surely because of our ageing population - in 40 years something like 75% of the population is going to be over 65 - calls for the births of more children? Segregation and resentment is going to be caused by anything that drives the communities further apart, like that - people point out the differences and report things like a woman being asked to take her pig ornaments out of her window to avoid offending Muslims (probably bullshit), or some council referring to the Christmas season as 'winterval', blow it all out of proportion, keep dragging it up when it has absolutely no relevance to anything, and then divisions are created.)

The NME is aware of its status, it knows it can cause a proper fuss with this, it just smacks of sensationalism. They do it a lot, they interview someone then pick up on one particular point, one particular comment made by the interviewee, and kick up a massive fuss around it, and then push them into saying more. They gave him another fucking interview to make him say more and dig an even deeper hole for himself; fine, get him to explain himself, just don't turn into Bill bloody Grundy and goad him into outright saying 'I fucking hate blacks and Asians, burn them all.'

i love you.

his opinion is fairly reasonable, and he's hardly went and shouted 'nigger', has he? I don't really share his view, but i can see where he's coming from, and he's certainly not been 'racist'. not by a long chalk.