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Post by oats on Aug 17, 2009 18:33:48 GMT
I agree. Some of these overly temperamental responses are leading to unnecessary and what I presume is unintentional shit stirring. I haven't really seen any 'tempermental' responses or shit stirring. This thread has actually been far more tempered than I ever could have imagined it could be after seeing the video. What we have here is a thread of people trying to make sense of how they feel over this event. And quite rightly so. Apologies. I have, but that is down to my take on Patrick's occasional iffy behavior as being somewhat unsurprising and expected - in the face of which some peoples reactions come across as a bit of an over-reaction. This is likely because they are more righteous people then I am. I'm too busy admiring the shape of clouds and questioning everything to get worked up about these kinds of things. Judgement tires me out. So considering I can't really offer anything to this debate other than talk about myself, I should not have entered it in the first place. I shall leave it to you lot. Cheerio x
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Kell
Apparition
Posts: 33
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Post by Kell on Aug 17, 2009 19:15:45 GMT
I quoted that to him on twitter and asked if throwing things and spitting were a good substitute? I also supported his passion for his fans and my dislike of the whole shutting down business. I truly thought he would apologize, but exactly the opposite happened. It just needs to not happen again, is all, and whoever is close to him should be telling him that. During The Magic Position tour he said he was surrounded by people who didn't care about his behaviour, "on with the show." I hope he has more responsible people to ground him now. It's not really funny is it? It is actually kind of a big deal. He's lucky he wasn't arrested, there's enough witnesses. Also, does anyone else remember the lyrics to Battle? - "fight without fists".
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Post by jazz hands on Aug 17, 2009 19:33:35 GMT
it's great how all you guys who weren't even there can tell whether he showed respect to the audience or not. for the record, this was one of the best gigs i've ever seen patrick play, which was probably one of the reasons why he was so upset. I don't see why he should make a public apology when the people he offended aren't the "public" but very specific ones. If you want to see an emotionless robot, i suggest you go and see Lady Gaga instead. One of the things I love most about Patrick is that he cares so much about his music and his gigs, and this reaction, even if it was over top, proved it once again. I talked to him the next day, and he was sorry, not for the festival organisers, but for the audience who got such an extreme ending of an otherwise wonderful show.
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Post by helwin tins on Aug 17, 2009 19:34:27 GMT
Apologies. I have, but that is down to my take on Patrick's occasional iffy behavior as being somewhat unsurprising and expected - in the face of which some peoples reactions come across as a bit of an over-reaction. This is likely because they are more righteous people then I am. I'm too busy admiring the shape of clouds and questioning everything to get worked up about these kinds of things. Judgement tires me out. So considering I can't really offer anything to this debate other than talk about myself, I should not have entered it in the first place. I shall leave it to you lot. Cheerio x Expecting someone to behave like a twat doesn't mean it's ok when they do. I'd rather have high expectations of someone I respect. Of course, this means it affects me more when they do fuck up, but yeah, whatever.
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Post by papilioulysses on Aug 17, 2009 19:39:38 GMT
^^danke nina!
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Post by helwin tins on Aug 17, 2009 19:42:17 GMT
it's great how all you guys who weren't even there can tell whether he showed respect to the audience or not. for the record, this was one of the best gigs i've ever seen patrick play, which was probably one of the reasons why he was so upset. I don't see why he should make a public apology when the people he offended aren't the "public" but very specific ones. If you want to see an emotionless robot, i suggest you go and see Lady Gaga instead. One of the things I love most about Patrick is that he cares so much about his music and his gigs, and this reaction, even if it was over top, proved it once again. I talked to him the next day, and he was sorry, not for the festival organisers, but for the audience who got such an extreme ending of an otherwise wonderful show. The way he acted didn't only affect the fans at the show, and it didn't only affect the person he attcked. Many people are upset by it. I'm sure no-one wants an emotionless performance, just a violence-free one.
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Post by jadeface on Aug 17, 2009 19:47:29 GMT
I think we'll have to agree to disagree with opposing views as there's such a strong split down the middle. But even if I was there, I'd feel exactly the same and I know that for a fact. I know this is very dragged out, but I don't care to be honest. If he did that the last time I saw him I'd be mortified, I'm sorry. Especially when I took my boyfriend who I think already assumed he was a pretentious [insert offensive word] that would be embarrassing for me.
And there have been plenty of violent-free shows, which have been lively and upbeat, so I'm not sure why people are saying if he wasn't 'like that' he'd be a robot... I also know a lot of passionate people who are either musicians or writers or artists of some sort and yes they all have issues in life like we all do, they all get angry at times but no they don't take it out on other people and NO THEY'RE NOT BORING.
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Post by Lemon Bloody Cola on Aug 17, 2009 20:01:05 GMT
But isn't it all becoming too dramatic,now? He did wrong,for two times cause he didn't apologise,but he's only human...everyone does stupid things in life,or not? Yes we all do stupid/bad things, but the important distinction is we all face CONSEQUENCES for it. The indulgences afforded to Patrick Wolf as a cult popstar are cocooning him from that. What Liz said was bang-on. This is abuse of power. We don't want Patrick lynching, just for him to climb down for his high horse and admit what he did was totally wrong, no matter how valid his gripe with the festival organisers.
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Post by Rhiflect on Aug 17, 2009 21:28:11 GMT
I think we'll have to agree to disagree with opposing views as there's such a strong split down the middle. THIS.
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Post by zicole on Aug 18, 2009 1:46:35 GMT
This may sound crazy to most of you, but honestly I know exactly how he feels.
I tour in a band and I can tell you for a fact that sometimes you will do things out of the ordinary. Considering how hectic his lifestyle is, it doesn't surprise me that this happened. He tours like a mad man, committing himself 100% to his fans all over the world. Hasn't he said before that he gets around 3 hours of sleep a night? He's done far more than his best to try and please everyone who cares. Of course he's upset when his time is robbed. I've seen first hand that you could be the nicest person in the world, however, on the road things can change without your intentions.
And from a personal side, playing music has been one of the most passionate things I've done. It's unexplainable how wonderful it feels to engage with an audience with my craft. My band rarely plays with mics or amps (one reason to avoid this sort of thing), but we've had the plug pulled on us and it's always been extremely heartbreaking. Yeah, maybe throwing stuff and spitting wasn't the most proper thing to do, but I can sympathize what that disappointment is like.
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Miyamashi
Empress
Is a Psychosomatic Princess
Posts: 155
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Post by Miyamashi on Aug 18, 2009 4:21:50 GMT
I've mentioned this in the Twitter Status Updates thread, but I'm thinking of composing a letter to Patrick himself, which I would get signed and approved by any of my fellow Wolfboarders who want to have views taken directly to the source. Patrick claims that his fans, and his audience are important to him, and while the Wolfboard itself may not be the core of his fanbase, we are some of the most dedicated of his fans, and those who care enough to be discussing this in depth. It would by no means be an attack, but it wouldn't condone the actions, either.
This is almost more a response to his recent attitude toward the event, and to the string of selfish behaviours that goes much farther back than this incident itself. Most of this was posted on his Twitter, thus why it was an idea brought up in that thread, first. As we all know from the songs, and the interviews, Patrick's ideals claim to be on putting the music above the fame, and his responses to his actions are claiming anything but. He is pleading that this is acceptable because it's what musicians do--cause drama. He's claiming it was a righteous act, excusable because of who he is and how he and his fans were "wronged" by the set having been cut short. Patrick is a man who wants to be revolutionary, but instead is having tantrums onstage.
However, after being involved in this discussion for a while now, I and what appears to be a lot of others of us are more upset by the act than the cause of it. More than anything, we are upset that someone who many of us admire, not only for his music, but for the views that fuel what his music is all about, seems to be turning into exactly what he hates. I doubt that any of us here--and indeed, Patrick himself--want him to be remembered when people look back on his career for his drama, not his music. We want to be supporters of a great musician, not a face in the tabloids. He's generating the wrong kind of attention. He may very well become famous acting this way, but at what price? Does he want his fanbase and his support to come from people who support his music and his ideals, or does he want Bandstocks to turn into a fund where people throw in money so they can watch the spectacle?
This is an important issue. We may not represent a majority of his fanbase, but those of us here who give the time to discuss Patrick are also many of the same ones willing to give up money to fund his next album. Currently, Patrick is acting as a celebrity, not a man, and he's expecting to be treated as such. However, he should not be above having to take responsibility for a mistake, and to follow the rules of common decency and respect. Remember, this is a man whose work we are no longer outside observers to. We are involved, and he's the one who put us there. Actions like this not only potentially put people in danger (What if someone DOES get hurt next time? If he goes on thinking he's justified in acting this way, a "next time" is likely to come.), but the attitude behind it, in its hypocrisy against what seems to be his motives for making music and for asking his fans to contribute, says that, one day, he may fall into being exactly the man he claims to hate. I don't think any of us want to support that. I don't think any of us want to invest our money, our time, and our support in a man who thinks himself above the rest of the world, because that puts our investment at risk.
The day Patrick Wolf stops putting the music before his status as a celebrity is the day the music will suffer, too. I think we need to speak up, because right now, his reactions on Twitter seem to be that he thinks himself justified, and he thinks that, as an audience, this is what we want from him, when from what I've seen, it clearly isn't. If he cares so much about the fans, then maybe he'll listen if we speak.
Tooth and nail.
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Post by katherine☮ on Aug 18, 2009 9:16:52 GMT
(i feel a bit inadequate posting after miyamashi's post, but will do anyway :x ) i've not been on the board in a while but i've just seen the video, i thought it was quite funny when he was doing the whole 'fucking motherfucker' etc etc, just seemed like he was taking the piss a bit, but it wasn't nice to see him suddenly change like that & start throwing stuff. fair enough he didn't want to cut his set, but thats not the patrick we know and love, i feel sorry for the people at the gig, what a way to end it!
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Post by jazz hands on Aug 18, 2009 11:13:24 GMT
I've mentioned this in the Twitter Status Updates thread, but I'm thinking of composing a letter to Patrick himself, which I would get signed and approved by any of my fellow Wolfboarders who want to have views taken directly to the source. Patrick claims that his fans, and his audience are important to him, and while the Wolfboard itself may not be the core of his fanbase, we are some of the most dedicated of his fans, and those who care enough to be discussing this in depth. It would by no means be an attack, but it wouldn't condone the actions, either. patrick wrote and said several times that he's got a great support system, close friends and a family that loves him. why don't you leave it to them to deal with patrick's personality and to tell him when he's off. that's not the responsibility of a fan. as a fan you're there to support him, and most of all his music, but if you can't do that anymore, get over yourself and find a new band to adore. don't flatter yourself into thinking you can change patrick.
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Post by jay on Aug 18, 2009 14:07:04 GMT
i'm with nina on this one. (i hope that's your name.)
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Post by zicole on Aug 18, 2009 14:08:36 GMT
I wouldn't quite put it that way, but sorry, I don't think that's a very good idea. I understand you're upset Miyamashi, but at the same time I think you're looking way too into it.
Am I the only one who is totally over this?
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Post by jay on Aug 18, 2009 14:13:37 GMT
i'm not totally over it, as in, i am still really disappointed with patrick's actions at this event but i feel i have nothing more to add to the discussion about it. so i'm over the discussion, yes. stalemate. and writing him some kind of petition or letter about this is frankly ridiculous. if any change is ever going to happen in a person, it comes from within, and outside influence is only ever a slight one, if that. patrick does read this forum from time to time, and if he chances upon this thread, he'll know how we feel. i'm just not sure it would really sway him.
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Post by helwin tins on Aug 18, 2009 14:14:15 GMT
I don't think it's a bad idea Miyamashi. Fans have a right to have their opinion heard. Especially when the fans are providing the funds. But yeah, I've said everything I want to say now (I think ) so I'm gonna leave it and hope that Patrick regains his sense of fuman decency soon.
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Miyamashi
Empress
Is a Psychosomatic Princess
Posts: 155
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Post by Miyamashi on Aug 18, 2009 16:27:58 GMT
Alright. There's a reason I made that post before any actual action, because I did want to see peoples' opinions on the matter. Now that I see a few people are against the idea, including one of our moderators, I'll back down. Sorry for offending anyone. All I ask is that if I say something you don't agree with, please don't be rude about it.
Over and out, and much love, guys. <3
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Post by Lemon Bloody Cola on Aug 18, 2009 17:15:43 GMT
I also support Miyamashi's idea. I knew from the moment you typed it you would get accused of being "over the top" or "ridiculous". But the fact remains, Patrick has still not faced any consequences for his (in my view, quite serious) actions. As Jay said, we are people who listen to his records and attend the occasional gig. That we could have anything but a nominal influence on Patrick's life is obviously highly unlikely.
Still I would support a petition, or even a boycott of Patrick's records and concert until an acknowledgment of his fans feelings on this/an apology is forthcoming. however I doubt a united front is plausible here. But hopefully the flames of a backlash can be fanned (pardon the pun) to the point where Patrick is at least fully aware of how disgusted a lot of people are with him, and that the worst excesses of his behaviour are not something his audience is willing to indulge.
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Post by oats on Aug 18, 2009 20:52:46 GMT
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