|
Post by Lemon Bloody Cola on Mar 30, 2010 7:23:20 GMT
Florence, I love you, you're such a soldier.
My Mum and is a pretty hardcore (very class-centric) socialist.. as is my step-dad. They're very big Labour apologists due to their extreme tory hate.. then you have my gran who's a Tory herself and quite racist/homophobic etc. Political debates often go off at Sunday dinner and I tend to find myself as the "voice of reason", "devils advocate" in the middle. A bit like Vince C bringing the sense between two squabbling kids last night.. ha.
I love how the Lib Dems aren't tied slaves to either big business or outdated socialist dogma/unions etc. Best choice for the country for sure.
|
|
|
Post by jadeface on Mar 30, 2010 8:07:57 GMT
Thanks Florence, exalt I did actually know quite a few of these things now you've said them, but thanks for putting them together for me, I get very confused about information like this and worry I attach it to the wrong party. I have no idea what my parents political views are. I wonder, I might ask them actually. But because we've never discussed politics I've always found it super hard to decode. That's okay I really honestly think that politics should be taught in schools as part of the curriculum, like, so bad, it needs to be. Most people don't talk about it at home. My dad has always been reasonably vocal about politics as we watch the news at the dinner table over the years, and is a Lib Dem supporter, so that's leaked into my conscience since I was about twelve I suppose, even before I fully understood it. I've always been able to ask him about things I don't understand, too (and probably get a biased reply ) which will have shaped my views no doubt. However my dad's dad was so right-wing and such a racist he was practically a Nazi, so I hear (he died when I was a few months old), so it's weird. Maybe we're not influenced that much by our parents. I see it as like, an endless cycle of everyone influencing each other – whoever you happen to talk to about things, influence flowing both ways. Yeah, I'm going to go to bed now before I overthink this. Ps. Cheers Jay First of all, Florence I wish I was as level headed as you are when I was your age (how old are you by the way, 16ish? Sorry if I'm way off) and I don't mean that in a patronising way, you're just very clued up and at almost 22 I'm still confused at life, haha! Yeah, we learnt NO politics at school. It was never mentioned and I guess that's why I remain baffled. It wasn't until I went to University that I started being taught it, and you can imagine that in a way it's probably a lot harder to learn when you're 20, than if it's always around you. My excuse is I have a 'creative brain' but I definitely think that's no excuse for not being able to learn about what directly effects me. I think I will vote, I wasted my last one (well, I think I did, I'm starting to wonder if I made it up, when was the last election?!), and I don't think I should waste this one. I'm going to have a bit of a read up and see how I feel and about who.
|
|
|
Post by sarah on Mar 30, 2010 13:01:20 GMT
kind of agree about politics being taught at least for a bit, the only reason i know anything about politics is the 2 years of standard grade modern studies i took (like politics but not exactly). one thing i don't like is the 'first past the post' thing the general elections have, often meaning more people didn't vote for the winning party than did. in Scotland they've got a different system where you vote for your 1st preference, then 2nd and so on (i think, like i said my only knowledge is from 3 years ago). not sure how that would work for the whole of the UK though
|
|
|
Post by Lemon Bloody Cola on Mar 30, 2010 13:50:15 GMT
I think politics is one of those things that you'll understand better if you take an independent interest in it (learning out of interest is always more effective than out of obligation). I never got any education on most things beyond the basics but because politics interested me (as a teenage Mainc Street Preachers fan it was mainly music/pop culture that engaged me) I searched out info myself, and with the internet that's much easier now than it was then. Really, radio 4, Channel 4 news, the papers, the internet it's all there and easily accessible to people if you want to dip your toes in.
It someone's interest is genuine the stuff you'd learn in a general studies class can be pretty much grasped in an hour or two browsing wikipedia. Well.. but then my one intellectual talent has always been to hyper focus and gather a lot of information on a single subject quickly (for example I've been a comic book fan less than two years, yet my geek knowledge is generally better than middle aged men who've been devoted life long fans) so that could just be me! I certainly make up for that intellectual strength with one hell of a lot of weaknesses.
|
|
|
Post by lastgoodbye on Mar 30, 2010 18:53:04 GMT
First of all, Florence I wish I was as level headed as you are when I was your age (how old are you by the way, 16ish? Sorry if I'm way off) and I don't mean that in a patronising way, you're just very clued up and at almost 22 I'm still confused at life, haha! Thank you Jade I am indeed sixteen (and probably not as clued up as a I give the impression of being.) I really want to say something to continue the election discussion, but I actually can't think of anything. Um. What does everyone think of the televised debates coming up, between the three main party leaders? Is it a good thing, making politics more accessible, or is it making our politics too presidential and too based around personality?
|
|
|
Post by Rhiflect on Mar 30, 2010 21:39:22 GMT
I'm hopefully going to watch it, so it's made me more aware. And I think in our society a postitive personality is a relatively major part of being a political leader. E.g. lots of people don't like Gordon Brown because he is 'grumpy'.
My mum said she wasn't going to vote because she 'didn't want to waste her vote on something I don't know about'. Is this valid?
|
|
|
Post by choolin firth on Mar 31, 2010 0:27:52 GMT
I think that's valid, but tell her she's not allowed to complain about anything in the government for the next four years if she doesn't vote .
|
|
|
Post by lastgoodbye on Mar 31, 2010 12:42:58 GMT
And I think in our society a postitive personality is a relatively major part of being a political leader. E.g. lots of people don't like Gordon Brown because he is 'grumpy'. This is true, but it doesn't mean it's right. For a start, you're voting for the party, not the leader. The personality of the prime minister may be what we like reading about in the papers / discussing on This Morning or whatever, but it's really no reflection on how well they (and the party) will be able to run the country. I do think that the debates are a good idea overall, though.
|
|
|
Post by Lemon Bloody Cola on Mar 31, 2010 14:50:15 GMT
I would actually disagree that a leaders "personality" is a shallow irrelevance.
If you're leading any endeavor be it a business or a country communication skills are paramount. As Prime Minister an ability to communicate effectively with the populace is simply as much a part of the job as the actual behind the scenes work running the country. Gordon Brown has very poor communication skills, which in my mind is a legitimate criticism, and a key failing in his ability to be a good PM.
If you look to America for a second, Ronald Regan is remembered fondly as president by many, whilst George.W.Bush is generally seen as one of the worst ever. They both made exactly the same mistakes, with exactly the same effects on America, the difference is RR was good at communciating his positions to the American people.
|
|
|
Post by cmj on Mar 31, 2010 15:50:13 GMT
I never exalt but I exalted Florence for that on the last page This will be the first time I can vote...I would love to vote Lib Dems or Green, but in my Constituency I think Labour are the only party with a chance of keeping the Tories out. In which case I might do a bit of flyering/door to door shit to try and stop people voting Tory.
|
|
|
Post by lastgoodbye on Apr 1, 2010 15:08:41 GMT
I would actually disagree that a leaders "personality" is a shallow irrelevance. If you're leading any endeavor be it a business or a country communication skills are paramount. As Prime Minister an ability to communicate effectively with the populace is simply as much a part of the job as the actual behind the scenes work running the country. Gordon Brown has very poor communication skills, which in my mind is a legitimate criticism, and a key failing in his ability to be a good PM. If you look to America for a second, Ronald Regan is remembered fondly as president by many, whilst George.W.Bush is generally seen as one of the worst ever. They both made exactly the same mistakes, with exactly the same effects on America, the difference is RR was good at communciating his positions to the American people. Hmm, I still disagree, because our system of government is completely different to the presidential system (even if it's looking more and more like it outwardly). In the US, it is the president who people vote for, and who is in charge, but in the UK it is still the party who we vote for, and it's the party who make governmental decisions, although their leader is obviously the figurehead. Good personality and communication skills do effect how a politician is remembered, true, and how well liked they are, but I still don't think these things are especially relevant to the actual party's ability to run the country. Like, you're right, lots of people don't like Gordon Brown because he is 'ugly' and 'miserable' and 'uncharismatic' or whatever, but it doesn't mean he's not a competent and experienced politician when it comes to the serious, behind the scenes business of it. Similarly, David Cameron - 'young' 'vibrant' 'charismatic' 'fresh faced' and all this fluff they're spouting, but is he competent and experienced? Would you trust him to work diligently under pressure? Who knows. Plus, the responsibility to communicate policies etc. to the public falls to other senior minsiters, too, not just the PM.
|
|
|
Post by Lemon Bloody Cola on Apr 1, 2010 15:24:58 GMT
No point having all the good ideas in the world backed with the firmest work ethic if you can't sell it to the people and win their confidence.. this is true of the financial markets too. Ideas are the most important thing, yes.. but how you present them is also crucial.. because a badly sold idea will likely never come to fruition, rendering it null whatever its benefits.
Gordon Brown.. well I'm willing to conceed he'd be a better pm than Cameron, I still think he's far from the right man to lead the country.
The Labour party might subjectively be less loathsome than the Tories, but that doesn't mean they aren't loathsome themselves. As a civil libertarian, I feel the current Labour government take all the negative paternalistic, "the state knows best" aspects of socialism (ID-cards, the smoking ban etc) without delivering any of the postives like social justice and redistribution of wealth.
I don't begrudge anyone who makes the decision to tactically vote Labour in order to keep the Tories out, but lets be under no illusions in no way does this pathetic, weak and self serving government deserve our votes.
|
|
|
Post by lastgoodbye on Apr 1, 2010 15:44:36 GMT
No point having all the good ideas in the world backed with the firmest work ethic if you can't sell it to the people and win their confidence.. this is true of the financial markets too. Ideas are the most important thing, yes.. but how you present them is also crucial.. because a badly sold idea will likely never come to fruition, rendering it null whatever its benefits. This would be true if every single government decision came with a referendum, but once a government is in power and their leader is Prime Minister, it's their fellow minsters who they have to convince and win the confidence of in order to get their bills passed in parliament, not the electorate or general public. (and it's not the Prime Minister who even proposes most bills/comes up with policies/ideas.) So, in order to win an election, yes a politician has to be convincing when presenting their manifesto to the public. But if we're talking about someone who is already Prime Minster, then their ability to win over the public by being a convincing public speaker, or by being someone we can relate to, isn't so significant anymore, because it doesn't impact (very much) on (most of) the work they and their cabinet are doing (although admittedly public mood does affect political decisions in some cases, but not after they are implimented).
|
|
|
Post by jadeface on Apr 3, 2010 12:03:30 GMT
I saw David Cameron on TV yesterday, he really does go on about family units doesn't he? Well shut up. I don't think I'm ever going to live a married, 2.4 children kind of lifestyle, in fact, I doubt I'll get married, I doubt I'll have children and my creativity and things I want to experience, come first. Yes I hope I have a solid relationship but marriage isn't relevant to me.
A Lib Dem leader just came to my door, I was talking to him on the intercom for a while. He has posted a poster through my door if I feel like voting for them, and that if I decide to vote for them to put it in my window. I'm really not sure about that but I didn't want to be mean. They seem quite appealing but I'd be scared to make such a big statement to put something in my window. I think this is mainly because I don't feel like I know enough to make a point like that, you know?
I'M CONFUSED.
|
|
|
Post by Rhiflect on Apr 3, 2010 16:18:58 GMT
I just heard that the poster campaign (does this literally just mean the poster's that'll be put up? Or is it weirdo lingo?) for Labour will be David Cameron as Gene Hunt from Ashes to Ashes and the slogan like 'Do you want this man to take you back to the 80s?'. But I like Gene Hunt
|
|
|
Post by jay on Apr 7, 2010 22:35:44 GMT
sorry to bring this thread up again but i just discovered voteforpolicies.org.uk which provides a survey for you based on issues that you choose, with no party attached to the policies, so you can vote for the ones you like best and then find out which party is best suited to your opinions at the end. i got 50% green party... i was surprised!
|
|
|
Post by lastgoodbye on Apr 7, 2010 23:00:39 GMT
THE ELECTION HAS OFFICIALLY BEGUN. I AM SO EXICTED! The next few months are going to be crazy fun. ^ Jay, that site is cool Although it doesn't really work for me because I recognise which parties the policies belonged to (just because I only picked the four areas I was most interested in and I know about the different proposals for those areas and stuff). Still, it's a wonderful idea. And yeah, the Green Party rocks so much It's interesting how 28% of the people who have used the site came out Green - making it the most popular party. I know the website users probably aren't a fair representation of the electorate, but still, makes you wish that more people were educated about what different parties stand for. Then maybe the Greens would have some MP's! For anyone who is interested: policy.greenparty.org.uk/policypointers/index.html Also it's not mentioned there, but their immigration policy is lovely.
|
|
|
Post by choolin firth on Apr 7, 2010 23:15:06 GMT
I was 33.33% Lib Dems, Labour and Green Party! But the parts I was most interested in came up as Lib Dem.
|
|
|
Post by Lemon Bloody Cola on Apr 7, 2010 23:21:19 GMT
I did something a little like that the other day. I had 1) Lib Dems, then 2) Greens but the really disturbing thing was that my views had more in common with the UKIP than Labour and BNP ranked higher on my list than the Tories!
|
|
|
Post by dot on Apr 7, 2010 23:42:16 GMT
I was 83% green party and 17% labour. I wasn't expecting to be so supportive of the green party's policies, though I guess it's not that surprising when I think about it. In relaity I'm probably going to vote Labour as a tactical vote to stop the tories getting in, though maybe I will consider voting Green.
EDIT: Is there an easy way on that website to see which policies belong to which parties? Some were obvious but some I wasn't sure about and want to know which is which.
|
|