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Post by fabbit on Jun 20, 2007 21:43:49 GMT
But I mean if thats what people want to do and they haven't been forced or conned into in anyway, it's not really for anyone else to judge isn't it? I will judge people whenever I please! I'm willing to accept people have different desires, lifestyles etc., but when you treat people like pawns for your designs then yes, I will judge you and I will have a problem with it. Frankly, I think the women were just weak-minded and maybe needed a bit of personality. Surely you must find it just a little bit sinister? Watching a documentary on the matter, and having couples talking about it, it just came off really badly to me. Hearing the author of the book that started the thing talking about it was pretty shudder-worthy too. um. but that is just a different kind of lifestyle, and you aren't really accepting it. i am semi-offended by that statement. |
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Post by fabbit on Jun 20, 2007 21:44:40 GMT
I fucking hate it for instance when liberal do gooders and feminists go on about how "repressed" Muslim women who wear veils and what not are. IT'S THERE OWN FUCKING CHOICE YOU POMPOUS WANKS. Just because it doesn't fit into your so liberated ideals, doesn't mean you can dictate and patronise people. a lot of times they are killed if they dont, but certainly in the united states and england, it is their choice. |
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Post by hark on Jun 20, 2007 21:45:42 GMT
On the veils and burkha issues, I find it's more conservative people who say that stuff. It's usually linked to their own sectarian viewpoints though. I'm of the opinion that women can cover themselves as little or as much as they wish. If those women choose to interpret their religion that way, then awesome for them.
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Post by stentorsrevenge on Jun 20, 2007 21:46:43 GMT
They are rather repressed, though. Imagine if they tried to change their ways or assert themselves. They could be cast out or even killed.
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Post by Clare on Jun 20, 2007 21:47:04 GMT
I fucking hate it for instance when liberal do gooders and feminists go on about how "repressed" Muslim women who wear veils and what not are. IT'S THERE OWN FUCKING CHOICE YOU POMPOUS WANKS. Just because it doesn't fit into your so liberated ideals, doesn't mean you can dictate and patronise people. a lot of times they are killed if they dont, but certainly in the united states and england, it is their choice. It's a tricky issue, but no: living in the UK or USA doesn't mean they escape family pressures. Like I say: tricky issue. Some women choose to wear the veil, and I'm down with that. But it, ultimately, should be that: a choice. Not being coerced into it by family, not being forced to take a particular religious view point. Choice. |
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Post by blake on Jun 20, 2007 21:47:25 GMT
But I mean if thats what people want to do and they haven't been forced or conned into in anyway, it's not really for anyone else to judge isn't it? I will judge people whenever I please! I'm willing to accept people have different desires, lifestyles etc., but when you treat people like pawns for your designs then yes, I will judge you and I will have a problem with it. Frankly, I think the women were just weak-minded and maybe needed a bit of personality. Surely you must find it just a little bit sinister? Watching a documentary on the matter, and having couples talking about it, it just came off really badly to me. Hearing the author of the book that started the thing talking about it was pretty shudder-worthy too. Yes of course I agree it seems sinister and would seem on the surface to go against my own personal beliefs. But to be honest, what I feel is irrelevant. I don't believe you should look down on people who don't share your own ideals or even hold polar opposite ones, but thats just MY philosophy on things. I don't look down on you for thinking differently  |
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Post by hark on Jun 20, 2007 21:47:27 GMT
I will judge people whenever I please! I'm willing to accept people have different desires, lifestyles etc., but when you treat people like pawns for your designs then yes, I will judge you and I will have a problem with it. Frankly, I think the women were just weak-minded and maybe needed a bit of personality. Surely you must find it just a little bit sinister? Watching a documentary on the matter, and having couples talking about it, it just came off really badly to me. Hearing the author of the book that started the thing talking about it was pretty shudder-worthy too. um. but that is just a different kind of lifestyle, and you aren't really accepting it. i am semi-offended by that statement. Are people misunderstanding my meaning? I honestly can't believe people are so accepting of a lifestyle that condones complete control over another person. Also, if you read the following sentence, I explain myself right there. |
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Post by fabbit on Jun 20, 2007 21:48:14 GMT
my friends who were the veils certainly have the choice to wear it or not.
same with the guys who wear the turbans.
it's really the same, why don't people complain about the turbans compared to the veils?
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Post by hark on Jun 20, 2007 21:48:46 GMT
They are rather repressed, though. Imagine if they tried to change their ways or assert themselves. They could be cast out or even killed. Ah, I was meaning if they were women over here, in Western civilisation. Yeah, it's completely different when it's in places with laws like that. |
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Post by resurrectart on Jun 20, 2007 21:48:47 GMT
But if it really is complete control that they both want, why isn't that ok?
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Post by Clare on Jun 20, 2007 21:50:24 GMT
my friends who were the veils certainly have the choice to wear it or not. same with the guys who wear the turbans. it's really the same, why don't people complain about the turbans compared to the veils? Because turbans are used to keep hair neat - in Sikhism, men wear turbans just to keep hair - a gift from God - neat. However, in Islam, veils are about a woman's modesty. The idea is that she is not allowed to show her hair - an intristic part of her femininity - to anyone but her husband and children. It is to do with keeping yourself modest for God and family. |
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Post by fabbit on Jun 20, 2007 21:51:12 GMT
um. but that is just a different kind of lifestyle, and you aren't really accepting it. i am semi-offended by that statement. Are people misunderstanding my meaning? I honestly can't believe people are so accepting of a lifestyle that condones complete control over another person. Also, if you read the following sentence, I explain myself right there. it is by no means complete control. now certain people do it to a different extent than others, but i don't see how it is any different then, say, bondage? |
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Post by stentorsrevenge on Jun 20, 2007 21:51:23 GMT
They are rather repressed, though. Imagine if they tried to change their ways or assert themselves. They could be cast out or even killed. Ah, I was meaning if they were women over here, in Western civilisation. Yeah, it's completely different when it's in places with laws like that. Ah, I understand. |
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Post by Rebekah on Jun 20, 2007 21:51:36 GMT
This thread is so serious. :-\ Have a macro.  |
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Post by fabbit on Jun 20, 2007 21:51:51 GMT
my friends who were the veils certainly have the choice to wear it or not. same with the guys who wear the turbans. it's really the same, why don't people complain about the turbans compared to the veils? Because turbans are used to keep hair neat - in Sikhism, men wear turbans just to keep hair - a gift from God - neat. However, in Islam, veils are about a woman's modesty. The idea is that she is not allowed to show her hair - an intristic part of her femininity - to anyone but her husband and children. It is to do with keeping yourself modest for God and family. oh, i know that. i thought the turban was the same way, but apparently not. |
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Post by Lauren on Jun 20, 2007 21:52:15 GMT
Sharia law is tough. I can't imagine any changes happening in countries that have it until religion isn't so entangled with the government. A popular revolution could work, since a majority of people living in those countries are young and disagree with the traditions.
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Post by Clare on Jun 20, 2007 21:52:36 GMT
The thing is that the laws don't protect these women. They can still be killed by family in Glasgow or in New York or in any city in the west.
It just causes more of a scandal if it gets into the news.
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Post by resurrectart on Jun 20, 2007 21:52:53 GMT
This thread is so serious. :-\ Have a macro.  lol |
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Post by Lauren on Jun 20, 2007 21:53:20 GMT
Are those inflatable balls?
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Post by resurrectart on Jun 20, 2007 21:53:38 GMT
I certainly hope so.
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