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Post by lastgoodbye on Jan 7, 2009 17:03:48 GMT
^ I was going to say that, but you said it better.
It's supply and demand: the more vegetarians there are, the less animals are bred for meat. So by being vegetarian, fewer animals die.
Edit: I've been vegetarian now for... 5 years, I suppose. Since I was ten. I decided to initially because I didn't like the idea of eating meat... biting it off, having it in your mouth and chewing it - bits of dead animal, of flesh which once had a life and thoughts and feelings, and who knows what else. Like eating a bit of a different human, day after day.
As you can tell, I was a really, REALLY weird ten year old. But that is why I stuck with it: the concept of eating meat still freaks me out, especially when it's not... I want to say necessary, but I'd probably get argued with. I don't need to do it. I'm afraid of corpses, so it might be something to do with that too.
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Post by ilze on Jan 7, 2009 17:12:25 GMT
i'm a vegan, although my reasons are quite weird there was once a discussion about eggs being the chicken's period and one man said they taste so too, haven't been able to eat eggs since milk gives me pimples and actually i hate farm animals, i seriously do, they're just so annoying, they create so much pollution, they make noise at 5 in the morning when you''re staying at your country relatives, they smell, they're horrible. and the only reasons we have them is so we could eat their meat and products, no way i am gonna be held responsible for paying for the life of such vile creatures and i just cant stop the image of a bloody muscle in a butcher's hand whenever i eat meat
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Post by newslang on Jan 7, 2009 17:26:14 GMT
I think taxidermy is quite neat looking most of the time. It's important to realize some (obviously not all) is road kill or natural death. I know my grandfather had some birds he found in his yard stuffed, and even a raccoon (which I adore for some odd reason).
I don't have an interest in taxidermy because I eat meat, though. Quite the opposite; I'd rather not know that the thing I'm eating once had a face. I guess I choose to be ignorant, but eating meat is a large part of my culture so I've never seen a problem with it.
As far as animal use goes, I think we really have to revert back to native use of animals where the entire animal is used : fur for clothing, meat for food, bones for tools, etc...
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Post by lastgoodbye on Jan 7, 2009 17:29:52 GMT
i don't think zurich80 ventures into this section, i'm afraid. THANK GOD.
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Post by jay on Jan 7, 2009 17:32:13 GMT
you said it, sister.
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Post by patty (candelia) on Jan 7, 2009 18:34:39 GMT
hehe..
i'm amazed by the number of vegetarian / vegan, here.. well i've been vegetarian for 9 years (and it's not really common to be vegetarian here in france), i turned because of daniel johns (silverchair), because i've never really appreciated meat and because i find out the industry and the way animals were treated really sucked (i still want to throw up each time i see the inside of a refregirated truck delivering a butcher, yuk) i was pretty strict at the beginning then started to wear second hand leather shoes and finally might have a hunter trophy on my bedroom.. i'm full of paradox
whenever i'm in a big town i try to go at the natural history museum (the one in London is lovely and enormous and full of all kinds of species), i like taxidermy, and feels like it's an 'ode' to the beauty of an animal, the deer head that hangs in my bedroom is like a jesus on crucifix (i'm a non religious person but i dig icons as well), i think it's esthetically amazing and has something special i like to believe this deer wasn't killed only for being a decoration piece.. plus i got it from a salvation army store, it was already owned and would have been by someone else if not me..
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2009 19:16:56 GMT
A girl I work with is a really brattish militant vegetarian; she hassles us whenever she sees us eating meat, she's made it her life goal to turn us into vegetarians. I just ignore her, but she has the opinion that if everyone in the world became a vegetarian, all the animals bred for meat would be allowed to run free and live out their lives without fear of being chucked into a meat grinder. I can't make her see that they'd probably all be slaughtered anyway because there would be no use for them.
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Post by bridgetbegins on Jan 7, 2009 19:31:59 GMT
I don't eat meat because I use to have 'meat' animals as pets, but I cook it for people I love. I don't like it when people accuse me of killing plants. I think taxidermy is funny, I wear leather shoes. I dissect animals for my anatomy class, because I think it's essential to learning.
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Post by jay on Jan 7, 2009 19:56:52 GMT
whenever i'm in a big town i try to go at the natural history museum (the one in London is lovely and enormous and full of all kinds of species), i like taxidermy, and feels like it's an 'ode' to the beauty of an animal, the deer head that hangs in my bedroom is like a jesus on crucifix (i'm a non religious person but i dig icons as well), i think it's esthetically amazing and has something special i like to believe this deer wasn't killed only for being a decoration piece.. plus i got it from a salvation army store, it was already owned and would have been by someone else if not me.. that is such an interesting point. i feel like i agree with you, it's showing off the beauty of the animal... also, i bet being a vegetarian in france is like being a veggie in germany.. terrible! all my family over there eat is meat, they even had a whole leg of smoked pig (parma ham) in the cellar which they brought up to the table whenever it was time to eat.
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Post by nerdmissile on Jan 8, 2009 8:18:27 GMT
I just find it reprehensible when it's about "look what I dun killed". Well done, you turned a beautiful living thing into a slightly creepy static thing. Wonderful contribution to society, there. Hunting for leisure purposes really bothers me. Not even so much because of the animals being killed (except with the rare breeds, there's pretty much no excuse for that) but how it reflects on the human personality that they think killing something feels so damn good whether you're going to use the meat or not. Combined with taxidermy it's just the basest form of neanderthal posturing.
That said I like Candelia's point a lot. Buying second hand taxidermy as a homage to the animal is a nice way of reclaiming it for a nice purpose. Everyone near San Francisco should check out the store next to 826 Valencia st. (I can't remember which side) which has a giraffe, along with all sorts of bugs and weird teas and kooky shit. It's a pretty awesome giraffe, even though it was probably awesomer when it could move.
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Post by allison on Jan 8, 2009 9:00:05 GMT
^^^ Paxton Gate??? yeah, that's the shop i was talking about with the lion, haha. Also in SF there is the Academy of Sciences which has a hall full of taxidermy animals all posed in very exciting and beautiful scenes... like any good natural history museum. but the Academy also has... some sort of live animal in that hall. I can't recall what they are, maybe penguins?? Haha i can't remember...
Regarding hunting: today i was while walking the doggie-wogs in the baylands (this park/reserve where there are walking paths through marshes and other muddy smelly watery area things on the edge of the SF Bay) i heard loads of gun shots, then i saw this hunter wading through the grasses trying to retrieve some duck he'd shot. it was horrible. really really sick. i hope he eats that fucking duck at least.
and regarding fur clothes: the other day i finally got to use some comeback line i'd read somewhere about fur coats, this awful earth lady came up to me and said 'do you know how many animals were killed to make your coat?' and this was my coat i got at goodwill and its falling apart and once in chinatown someone rudely cut off some fur from my sleeve so i said 'not enough, see this elbow' and showed her the crude fabric patch i'd put in place of the missing fur and the light turned green and i crossed the street and i felt very cool, even though it wasn't, really....
oh and family not accepting/understanding your eating habits? my grandfather is a goddamn CATTLE RANCHER. how do you think he likes my veganism? haha.
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Post by Rhiflect on Jan 8, 2009 17:12:10 GMT
There's a museum near me in Tring which is entirely taxidermy, it's got pretty much every animal there (except humans, and the extinct ones i guess are made, not stuffed). There's a whale (which is probably fake) going across the whole ceiling.
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Post by admin on Jan 9, 2009 12:55:13 GMT
A girl I work with is a really brattish militant vegetarian; she hassles us whenever she sees us eating meat, she's made it her life goal to turn us into vegetarians. But any sort of fundamentalism is, at best, irritating. That said, I think a lot of people expect vegetarians to be the kind of militant, 'whenever I eat meat they just stare at me with their eyebrow raised, then turn their head away slowly enough for me to realise the single tear slide slowly down their cheek'. Not the case. I've been a vegetarian since I was eleven, but even some of my best friends are surprised when they find out because I never, ever talk about it. Largely because I sometimes feel like I don't eat meat out of habit, rather than anything else. In fact - and this might be unfair - I find that anyone who routinely brings up their dietary choices is probably in it for all the wrong reasons. i've had my best friend throw strips of kebab at me because apparently she knew i wanted it (i've never wanted a kebab, even when i ate meat i knew it was something to avoid at all costs)... people are so ridiculous. Whether you're a vegetarian or not, someone throwing kebab at you is just... skanky. See also: anyone who eats kebab. Ew. Historical sidebar, my Dad used to tell me that kebab was made out of a camels hump. It wasn't until I was well into middle school, when I wondered what they did with the rest of the camel, that I found out this wasn't the case. Cheerio, Michael. xxx
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Post by jay on Jan 9, 2009 13:23:21 GMT
right on about the skank thing. maybe the kebab is like a metaphor for her bad relationships. or indeed... something else which i won't mention for fear of causing a chain vomit.
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Post by lastgoodbye on Jan 9, 2009 13:32:59 GMT
hehe.. i'm amazed by the number of vegetarian / vegan, here.. well i've been vegetarian for 9 years (and it's not really common to be vegetarian here in france) I think it's more of a strange Wolfboard thing than an English-speaking-countries thing. I don't really know many people in real life other than myself who are vegetarian.
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Post by Lauren on Jan 9, 2009 20:06:36 GMT
I suppose this sort of fits here...
I live in an area that is jam packed with pharmaceutical companies (so much so that I remember smelling the scent of Flinstones vitamins in the air while walking to the bus stop). Today I saw a giant 20 foot inflatable angry looking rat right on the side of the highway on the property of a massive pharma company. There were two guys standing below it waving at all the confused drivers passing. They weren't holding any signs though.
I can only assume this was a protest of using animals in scientific research. I am a vegan yet I also really see the importance of testing on animals.
Any other veg thoughts on animal testing for medical research?
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Post by TiaraStripes on Jan 9, 2009 20:43:33 GMT
I hate the argument about animal testing because it's always so repetetive, but in a lot of cases I don't really approve, even for medicine. It just doesn't seem reliable, Thalidamide being the best example. I think it was 11 species of animals that was tested on (Correct me here, i'm remembering from English oral exam when I was at school) and we all know how well that one ended.
Edit: And before someone jumps in with 'Well think abou t how much it's benefited humans too!' I'm aware of that, and haven't said I'm dead against it with no exceptions.
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Post by Gladiolus on Jan 10, 2009 0:03:51 GMT
I thought I wanted to be a vegetarian for many diffrent reasons that I thought were important, but mostly just because I thought it would be healthy manners but as soon as I became vegetarian I was supposed to answer all these questions about "why did you become a vegetarian?" "Is it cause you curse the meatindustry or because you just love fluffyanimals and cant stand to see them dead, or maybe simply because you want to sound more intersting (cos in fact you're quite boring)?". Of Course I had answers to all that cos I had done my research but I guess I just couldnt be arsed to argue everytime I sat down with my god damn veggieburger or something. Anyway I ended up sneaking up in the middle of the night, despretly eating a hot dog... guess I'm just a meatperson. Now I just mix, veg sometimes salamigurl othertimes cos I find there are othér ways to fuck up the world thn eating meat, youre not a holy saint because you dont eat chicken.
btw, to the point. stuffed.dead.real.animals is just a no no. big time no no. Its another story, not really related to vegetarians. Its about (cant believe I'm saying this but) "respect". uuuuuuuuuuuu. just get a drawing instead. leather as well. plasticheaven I say. that is bad as well I know but, just dont carry around a dead cow that often please? xoxo// mrs I dont what I'm talking about
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Post by mimicry on Jan 10, 2009 1:47:01 GMT
Strangely enough, I accidentally ate meat yesterday. I was given something on which to nibble, and I was eating it, I was thinking, hm, this doesn't taste like cheese or beans. It was chicken, apparently I had just forgotten the flavor of it. I never thought I would.
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Post by obeseguy on Jan 10, 2009 12:19:25 GMT
Fewer animals don't die. You just don't eat them. Far fewer animals die, though, as part of a changing diet pattern. Brits eat less meat than 10 years ago; less is therefore produced. That is oversimplifying, especially as you use one country, a developed, western country, as an example. Meat production globally has been rising for years, especially in developing countries, and is predicted to rise further. I'm all for everyone doing what they can to change the world, but right here, right now, realistically, an 'ethical' diet is much more effective at easing consciences than it is at saving the lives of any animals.
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