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Post by sueme on May 18, 2011 12:20:55 GMT
4. It's River AS A CHILD. OMG I LITERALLY JUST THOUGHT OF THIS ONE. Does it make sense? If River's timeline is travelling backwards against the Doctors? Is that why Amy is in a photo holding the baby,they go to visit her? Is that why River and the Doctor first even happens; because River kills him as a child, and then as she grows up she is curious about him? I've been thinking about this, even though I haven't seen much of River yet, only the beginning of "The Impossible Astronaut" - which means, basically I know nothing. But if she killed the Doctor as a child, wouldn't she show some recognition on the scene? And I'm sure, she wouldn't shoot at herself. But maybe that was just for the show, so she wouldn't have to admit that she was the one who killed the Doctor. This is getting my mind really worked up right now. But I only just started with season 4 and I wanted to watch it in the right order. So no big season 6 discussion for me, until I've actually seen it. Tough. Btw, yesterday I learned, how epic "Blink" is. And I love Donna and the Doctor together. I think I'm going to enjoy season 4 - a lot!
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Post by Roxy on May 20, 2011 19:41:28 GMT
OOOh yeah Blink is probably one of the best episodes. Donna is my FAVORITE companion!!!!! She is so good. You will also love her family p.s Stay away from this thread until you finish! It'll ruin it ;D
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Post by sueme on May 20, 2011 21:22:25 GMT
Haha, too late. I tracked the Doctor Who tag on tumblr, so I already have a lot of Spoilors. I already want to watch series five, because I'm curious about Amy and Eleven.
Yeah, Donnas Family is great. And I'm glad, Martha is over the Doctor.
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Post by sueme on May 24, 2011 17:15:29 GMT
I don't want this thread to die, because I'm majorly obsessed and I need people to talk to and none of my friends know the show or would want to watch it and this just sucks. I found an interview with Alex Kingston about River: How many Doctors has she known? Are we going to see Photoshopped pictures of her and Tom Baker?We don't know. All I know is that when I was doing the first story with David Tennant and River arrived and she had her blue book, it's just filled with her past exploits with the Doctor. And I was flipping pages sort of matching his face to the faces in the book. So presumably, she has met many Doctors.Just so I get this right, people assume that River's timeline is travelling backwards to the Doctor's life. This was stated in the new series, if tardis-wiki is correct. (I think "The Impossible Astronaut" or "Day Of The Moon".) She cannot have met the older Doctors before Ten, because one, the Doctor would know her already in the Library and two, she stated herself back then, that he was younger than she had ever met him. In conclusion she must have met later regenerations of the Doctor (going way past #13 I assume). But that isn't really my point. I only write this here so any of you can correct me, if I made a mistake. What I was wondering is: If the only time Ten meets her, is in the library, why would she recognise him immediatly. She may have sent a message to the Doctor, but she cannot be sure that the man in front of her is really him just by looking at him. Or is their a meeting with Ten that is not shown in the series (which I find rather unlikely, because I think their second meeting would be of great importance - especially if it took place during the time Ten was travelling alone)? And even more: If their timelines really are reversed, why would River have to go through her diary and go through all the journies she has had with the Doctor so far? River is a clever woman, right? She should have figured out by now that the Doctor has experienced none of the adventures she has in her Diary, because her past is his future. Basically what I'm getting at is that it cannot be right that their timelines are simply reversed. What have we learned on Doctor Who so far? Right, time is more a big ball of wibbly, wobbly, timey, wimey stuff, meaning: the flow of time is not linear, especially not for time travellers. This (and also what we learn from the Doctor's first meeting with River) would imply that they absolutely never (or at least hardly) meet in the right order and River dying when the Doctor first meets her should rather be something like a coincidence. Now, what I really, really hope is that my tardis-wiki and tumblr spoilors are wrong about the totally-reversed-timeline-thing and Moffat actually sticks to the wibbly-wobbly-meeting-theory that was suggest in "Silence in the Library" and "Forest of the Death" and people just got things wrong in some later episode. (Even though I have the feeling that "The Time of Angels" and "Flesh and Stone" indicate that there is a linearity and their timelines are totally reversed.) So, can anyone help me with this, because it really bothers me?
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Post by annasmt on May 24, 2011 22:06:37 GMT
^it seems like it's somewhere between wibbly wobbly and really reversed. hope this helps a bit
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Post by sueme on May 25, 2011 8:45:05 GMT
^ Yes, I've seen that before. But to me this looks like their timelines are completely reversed except for their meetings (obviously, because it would rather seem weird if River said bye everytime the Doctor said and the other way round - but maybe that's the wibbly wobbly part?) Well, maybe I'm getting to worked up about this. Still thanks for your help, though.
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lunamorgan
Apparition
I can wait, wait forever for my freedom to come. I am a patient girl.
Posts: 44
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Post by lunamorgan on Jun 4, 2011 20:15:03 GMT
Oh, Moffat. Try harder. I expected every single aspect of this episode to go exactly the way it did. No surprises at all. How disappointing.
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Post by sueme on Jun 5, 2011 17:34:23 GMT
I was surprised that Jenny wasn't coming back as many people thought/ the Jenny in this episode was not a regeneration of the Doctor's daugter. xD
But honestly, befor the episode I was really hoping that all the spoilers were false and that Moffat would have a big surprise for us. But in the end I found it so wonderful how River told the Doctor and his reaction was just adorable. I know, you get used to being mind-fucked when Moffat writes Who, but I think the series is about so much more than surprising plot-twists.
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Post by naaaat on Jun 5, 2011 23:07:56 GMT
I'm probably the only person who didn't see the River thing coming... The more I thought about it afterwards, the more obvious it seemed, but I watched it this afternoon and just sat there gaping like a fish right at the end
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lunamorgan
Apparition
I can wait, wait forever for my freedom to come. I am a patient girl.
Posts: 44
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Post by lunamorgan on Jun 6, 2011 22:47:41 GMT
I agree that it's not all about surprises, but I do feel like the River twist cheapens Rory and Amy as characters and I'm very attached to both of them. Considering that River was introduced in series four, it basically means that Moffat created Rory and Amy solely to develop River's backstory. They aren't independent characters anymore, they're River's parents.
They exist to have procreated and made her. You know? Especially give the (POSSIBLE SPOILER WARNING) rumors that Amy and Rory leave the show after this series ends.
I really like Rory and Amy and I don't want their existence to end up boiled down to the two special humans who make a love interest for the Doctor. I want their story to be their own. And I want River's story to be her own, I don't want her to have to be tied to this plot arc, either. I'm also terribly afraid that I have her entire history figured out at the point and that's also just kind of sad.
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Post by sueme on Jun 7, 2011 11:59:59 GMT
I apologise in advance for this long post. I wasn't actually heading for such a long answer, but then all these thoughts kept forming and I couldn't hold back.
I see your point. And I really wouldn't like Rory and Amy to be existing just for River's background. (There are people claiming though that Moffat didn't intend Amy to be River's mum when he introduced her to the show.) Either way I think that Moffat will still treat each of the three seperately to a certain extend. He might have seen them all the time as a family, each of them with their personal relationship to the Doctor. And I think that's where Moffat will focus on to a great extend: the relationships between the four - the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River/Melody. We've seen Amy back away from the Docor, her best friend, as he couldn't save her baby. She knows it's not his fault, but still she feels that he let her down. And so does the Doctor, and it hurts him so much. And even though Amy knows that her daughter is going to be fine, she also has learned that Melody will be turned into a weapon against the Doctor and eventually end up in prison. That's not exactly what you would wish for your daughter. And maybe somewhere in the back of her mind thoughts are forming like "If I had never gone with the Doctor, this would've never happened to my daughter." This is a very critical point in Amy's relationship with the Doctor and I think it will need time to - for lack of a better word - be fixed. Same goes for Rory. He just started to really trust the Doctor and yet the outcome of their rescue was not as he had imagined. He might have his wife back, but his daughter has been taken and all that because of the Doctor. And he might also feel that he's let down Amy, because he couldn't save their daughter - even though it istn't his fault. Then he also knows that there's definitely going something on between the Doctor and his daughter and I'm sure he'll take a while to arrange with that (probably longer than Amy). Also, I think that the revelation of River's identity will not only add interestingly to her relationship with the Doctor, but also to her relationship with Amy and Rory. I can only imagine how weird it must be to meet your daughter as a grown-up when you've only seen her as a little baby so far. I think it would be quite hard to accept at first and then when you've come to accept it, you might become a bit overprotective. (I can imagine Rory staring at the Doctor: "What is that look you're giving my daughter? You are not looking at my daughter like that, understood?!" ;D ) And most of all this promises interesting developements for the Doctor. It's about the daughter of his friends after all. Not only might he feel guilty that he kissed her - and will do so repeatedly. But also, even though he set out to get Melody back, he might not be able to do so while she is still a little child, or if he does it won't be for long. Because I doubt neither Amy nor Rory would let their daughter be put in a space suit as a young girl. So it might be possible that the Doctor will only find Melody after the happenings in 1969. So, I think that neither Amy nor Rory are serving to expand River's background story, but it still will be about them individually. Moffat will be able to do some exploring of their interpersonal relationships. And from what I've seen so far, I'd say he's doing a good job. And in the end it also comes down to the way we are looking at Rory and Amy. If we are too focused on the fact that in the series River was first and then Amy and Rory were introduced, then of course they won't be more than a part of River's backgorund story. But if we see it from Amy's view, how she met the Doctor as a little child and how he came back for her after twelve years and took her along on all these adventures (even though most of it happened in another reality), then she will remain as important to us as River. Same goes for Rory. (And I think he's slowly coming out of Amy's shadow, because he's not only tagging along anymore.) Of course it might be true Amy and Rory will be leaving after series 6. But I also wished that Donna could've stayed longer with the Doctor and still she had to leave at the end of series 4. That didn't devalue her personality and her importance for the Doctor though.
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Post by Sorrow By Nature on Jun 16, 2012 7:39:23 GMT
I am going to ressurect this thread simply to state the obvious: DOCTOR WHO IS AMAZING! The question is why it would have to take me so long to realise? I used to watch it sometimes as a kid. Back then they were mostly airing old Tom Baker-era episodes that were equally awful, funny and (as I remmber it) scary for a little kid. But not until a few months ago did I start watching the "new" series. I did however start with the Matt Smith episodes, which made sense at the moment and then went back to Eccleston's doctor (who, imo is one of the worst doctors I've seen...) and onward. Currently going to start season 4 and absolutely loving it. I'm having quite a bit of fun picking out famous cameo actors. Anybody else looking forward to the new season this fall? It's going to be sad to see Amy and Rory leave the show, but I guess it's time. As long as they don't plan on letting Matt Smith go after season 7... /t
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Post by niwo on Jun 20, 2012 12:25:51 GMT
oh yes it is! and i had the same problem, only came to it at new year's - took different attempts of different friends to get me watching and now i'm all, wtf have i missed all those years!!! i cannot wait for the new season and all moffats explanations for it only starting to air in autumn are not convincing me -.- matt has a 3 season contract with the option of prolonging for 1 or 2 more, but i'm not sure if it's his option or the bbcs option. in other news i was at the doctor who shop in london on saturday i had expected it to be different (especially bigger, on the inside) but it was still pretty awesome, with 2 giant tardises and a giant Dalek in it
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