On Religious Education in Schools.

[Rosie The Red]

So, I want to know what you guys think of learning about religion in school. For example, do you/did you enjoy it? Do you think it is necessary? Do you think it is right that we should be taught about Islam and Buddhism by a Christian teacher? Or, if you don't/didn't have R.E. lessons in school, would have wanted to?


My opinions...

This thread was brought about by the fact that I'm currently not doing my R.E homework, despite needing to quite badly... But it made me think, because we are learning about Islam, mainly their beliefs and culture, the history of the religion, etc - learning about rather than from the religion - yet we are being taught by an R.E teacher who is either Christian or of no religion. She knows the facts about the religion, but I don't feel like she understands it fully enough to teach us about it in a rounded and realistic way.

I have often felt over the past couple of months that we are being taught about the religion, but not understand it at all. I wish that when you were being taught about a religion, schools could actually get Priests or Imams or practising religious people to teach you about the religion from the perspective of somebody who lives by the religion. But I think some people would object to this, as they'd think that it was just giving religious folk chance to preach to young 'impressionable' people.

I don't always enjoy learning about religions, especially when I disagree with the views or teachings of the religion {for example, how Muslim women have to pray at the back of the Mosque so they don't distract the men... Surely the men should learn to not be distracted?}. I sometimes get really annoyed when learning about religion, as it seems to me that almost every religion is imbued with contradictions. However, I think it's important, as it helps to promote understanding, acceptance, etc etc etc. I was really shocked when somebody told me they didn't have R.E in American schools. {I hope this is true, not just a lie I was told.}

Anyway, you guys turn. What do you think? PLEASE discuss nicely.

[Aly]

I think it's important to learn about various types of religion. It's not like they're saying "this religion is correct you should follow it" It just helps us acknowledge there are different types of perspectives out there and we shouldn't reject that, just because we disagree. Religion is also important in that it helps us understand literature. It's a little difficult to read Western lit. without knowing something about the bible. Allusions are very important to understand books, since ones about religion frequently pop up.
I know that right now, there's a debate about Texas education. They want to take out evolution, because it's a"bunch of garbage" I mean, just because they don't believe in it, they shouldn't remove it. (they also want to remove some stuff from the history textbooks) So I don't think anything should be removed from our education.

[Lemon Bloody Cola]

This should be in the common room, would one of the Ann's bump it over?

[husbandwifeheroin]

Apr 5, 2010 18:08:13 GMT Lemon Bloody Cola said:

This should be in the common room, would one of the Ann's bump it over?

I'll do it

Now, on topic, I found learning about other religions interesting, but we did 90% Christianity. Also, being taught by a Christian made her seem biased. She was a bit Daily Mail (I say bit, she had clippings from it on her walls) and just all round 'this is right this is wrong' Mr. A style.

[Lemon Bloody Cola]

Apr 5, 2010 18:09:49 GMT Lawrence said:

they should enforce the fact that religion is just silly and teach more science

You know my take on mods breaking out the censorship stick but please note the OP asked for this topic to be discussed "nicely" I don't think casually dismissing the varied beliefs of billions of people as "silly" in a single moronic sentence entirely unsupported by further argument fits that remit. By all means state your anti-religion views but reducing them to a single pejorative sentence serves only to antagonise rather than promote discussion.

Anyone who's actually attended a school could tell you science is already a much more prominent part of the national curriculum than religious education. I remember everyone at my school being pressured to do double science which took up a biiggg chunk of the weekly time table. Only the losers, special needs kids and arse abouts took the single science option that I did. Because I wanted to do both History and R.E; subjects I was actually good at and that were taught in an interesting way (science is maybe the single most fascinating subject in the world but it was taught in a very dull way back when I was at school, especially for the lower-set kids who no effort was spent on in general)

I think it's important we don't just teach kids to think along the lines of the empirical material rationalism Dawkins approach that I think is really primitive from a philosophical stand point. Science and spirituality aren't incompatible. Newton, Einstein and Hawkings certainly did not consider religion "silly". I suggest you read some of Carl Jung's stuff and open your mind a little.

In a lot of ways a limited concept of science and "rationalism" prompted by bigots like Dawkins has replaced the position the Church once held in society to marginalise independent and unorthodox thinkers. You don't have to believe in God to be a fundamentalist.

[glumbumble]

Wait, are we talking about religion as being taught at school as a subject, like history or maths?

In France, there is no religious education unless you go to private catholic schools. Religious education as a class you have to attend every week I mean.

But, we studied the Bible in French class when I was in my first year of middle school. But it was in a literary point of view. I think as Gunther said, it was for our general culture knowledge, because if you don't know some things about the Bible there are references you can't get while reading, or things you can't understand in history.

Apart from that, I have not had any religious education.
I know things from the Bible because my mom was baptized and believes in God (I think) and got this book about the Bible that was quite cool, it was illustrated and made it seem so simple. My parents aren't religious people. And the only times I go to churches are to visit, or when I went with my uber religious friends in America.

I don't know if I believe in God or not or whatever there might be, but I don't think not having had religious education has made me narrow minded. I know about Islam because my dad is Iranian and was raised by muslim parents (but he's not religious, I don't know if he believes in a god actually...), I know about Christianity because my mom is Christian (this sounds wrong, I don't see my mom as belonging to one religion, for me she just believes in God, she doesn't even go to church).
I respect people who believe in a god and I respect those who belong to a church. I don't know how it is possible to have faith like that, so I kind of admire them.
Although for me, if I ever did start actually having faith in something that was not scientifically proven (and I'm not saying this in a way that makes religion seem bad or whatnot), I wouldn't need a religion to tell me how to believe, and what to do.
I think religion is just something to organize people and stuff, and spirituality is not the same thing. That's why I'm having trouble with my philosophy class at the moment, because the theme is religion and the teacher hasn't even talked about that difference.
But maybe I'm wrong, and too individualist, and I've not got the right image of religion?

[lastgoodbye]

Apr 5, 2010 19:07:34 GMT Lemon Bloody Cola said:

I think it's important we don't just teach kids to think along the lines of the empirical material rationalism Dawkins approach that I think is really primitive from a philosophical stand point. Science and spirituality aren't incompatible. Newton, Einstein and Hawkings certainly did not consider religion "silly". I suggest you read some of Carl Jung's stuff and open your mind a little.

In a lot of ways a limited concept of science and "rationalism" prompted by bigots like Dawkins has replaced the position the Church once held in society to marginalise independent and unorthodox thinkers. You don't have to believe in God to be a fundamentalist.

THIS. Exactly this! I fucking hate Richard Dawkins so much. Hate hate hate. Cannot stand him. Fucking bigot. Can't have him on tv for more than a minute.



But yeah, anyway. I think it's extremely important to teach religious education in school, but in a balanced way, and with no more emphasis on Christianity than any other religion (which seems to be what happens at the moment in the UK).

Religion should be taught as part of a wider cultural education, in my opinion. They taught us facts: the five key beliefs of insert religion here are this this and this, their holy book is this, their place of worship is this, their marriage practice is this, okay goodbye. If religious education was taught properly and in the UK then we wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of teenagers joining these turban/curry facebook groups.

[irrelevant]

that would certainly be something i'd have been interested in if it was offered here in the states.

although, i think my teenage self would be less inclined to point out said contradictions or be comfortable outwardly treating everything with the mind of a skeptic if classes were taught by a cleric. as long as they had an air such that challenging the text wouldn't have them giving you twenty lashings in their head, i'd consider it.

[irrelevant]

and congrats on starting a thread, RtR. i know it took some courage.

[Rhiflect]

Yeah, I noticed that too. Well done Rosie!

I enjoy my Religious Studies classes, but my teacher is an, for lack of a better term, idiot (she told us that the earthquake comes AFTER the tsunami, and asked us where the full stop goes in relation to the question mark). But yeah, we basically get taught the logistics of the religion and that's kinda boring. But we've done Buddhism, which is an interesting religion, and we also do quite a big unit on Ethics, e.g. abortion, euthanasia etc etc, which is really much more interesting.

[lastgoodbye]

Wow Rhi, that post about idoit RE teachers reminded me, actually. I have a friend who's gay, and her (conservative Christian) A level RE teacher is basically failing her because of it. I think more consideration should be put into the hiring of RE teachers... like, it's kind of counted as a 'non subject' at the moment, but the teaching of it is really very important because of the subject itself being delicate.

[mynameisHughGrant]

I think RE got better when I got a bit older. It stopped being taught fact by fact and we begun actually discussing, so it would become more of an exploration of your classmates thoughts and beliefs, outside of anything purely prescribed. I did have some very good RE teachers while I was at school as well, my favourite was about 50 and sort of sad but intellectual and a fan of Morrissey. At that point I was about 14 though, so I feel that is an opportunity missed because he was probably quite interesting and someone I could relate to pretty well now.
I think a subject like RE is important. there's not enough chance to explore and debate in life s a teenager. Also, just to be culturally aware as that makes for interesting people. I put myself under huge pressure to be interesting, I really worry I'm not.

[Rhiflect]

We had an Austrailian RS teacher as well. We all got like, Cs or Es in the exam the year she taught because she apparently marked on handwriting.
Mm.
We haven't had that much luck with RS teachers, i'm on my 4th, and only two of them were good!

[choolin firth]

Apr 5, 2010 16:58:28 GMT Rosie The Red said:

Do you think it is right that we should be taught about Islam and Buddhism by a Christian teacher?

I'd never thought about this, so it's interesting you brought it up. I think that because our school was pretty much 100% Christian, the students didn't think much of it. I think if there had been Muslim students learning about Islam in our school for example, and being taught by a Christian teacher, they probably would have felt differently.

As for religion being taught in schools in general, I absolutely think it should be. I was talking to my mum yesterday about religion. She goes to church but isn't particuarly religious, and only started going to church again when my sister and I were born because she wanted to take us to Sunday school. When I asked her why she did it she came up with a very good argument. She said that so many parents say "I'll let the children make up their own minds on religion when they're older", but how would they know what to choose from if they'd never been introduced to one of the choices? I told her I probably wouldn't take my children to church and I probably won't go in the future but I definitely won't forget the church, mainly because it played such a huge part in my childhood and also because I'd feel like such a fraud celebrating Christmas without remembering the real reason behind it. Forget Mariah Carey and Bing Crosby, I only ever feel Christmassy at church and carol singing!

[Lemon Bloody Cola]

I have fond memories or RE, cos my RE teachers were two of the only ones who took much interest in me and didn't just write me off as the special needs kid; my history teacher.. who went to school with Jarvis Cocker-fact fans! was the other, which subjects do you reckon I got my best GCSE's in?

The discussion lead elements of RE probably made my intelligent side become more apparent than some other lessons, it was my RE teacher who first noticed I was dyspraxic as well.

[idreamofcherrypies]

Apr 5, 2010 20:23:45 GMT lastgoodbye said:

But yeah, anyway. I think it's extremely important to teach religious education in school, but in a balanced way, and with no more emphasis on Christianity than any other religion (which seems to be what happens at the moment in the UK).

Religion should be taught as part of a wider cultural education, in my opinion. They taught us facts: the five key beliefs of insert religion here are this this and this, their holy book is this, their place of worship is this, their marriage practice is this, okay goodbye. If religious education was taught properly and in the UK then we wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of teenagers joining these turban/curry facebook groups.

Ahh this is exactly what I wanted to say but a million times more succinct and articulate.

I enjoyed RE very much despite not being religious, I think it was one of the best-taught subjects at my school (despite the issues Florence raised still applying), the majority of the top two sets got between A* and B at GCSE and considering we were 'insufficiently effective' and 'underachieving' then I think that's pretty good. It's true what's already been mentioned about how perhaps some teacher are slightly (or very) biased being Christian, but I think as long as that just converts into more enthusiasm rather than actual attempts at converting pupils, then it's fine, maybe even a help.

Edit: Ethics was a bitch though, so many people (including myself) did well in and enjoyed GCSE RE and took Religious Studies A-Level and then dropped it after five weeks of pretending to understand Kant and a milllion 'ism' ideologies that all sound the same.

[helwin tins]

Apr 5, 2010 19:07:34 GMT Lemon Bloody Cola said:

Apr 5, 2010 18:09:49 GMT Lawrence said:

they should enforce the fact that religion is just silly and teach more science

You know my take on mods breaking out the censorship stick but please note the OP asked for this topic to be discussed "nicely" I don't think casually dismissing the varied beliefs of billions of people as "silly" in a single moronic sentence entirely unsupported by further argument fits that remit. By all means state your anti-religion views but reducing them to a single pejorative sentence serves only to antagonise rather than promote discussion.

Anyone who's actually attended a school could tell you science is already a much more prominent part of the national curriculum than religious education. I remember everyone at my school being pressured to do double science which took up a biiggg chunk of the weekly time table. Only the losers, special needs kids and arse abouts took the single science option that I did. Because I wanted to do both History and R.E; subjects I was actually good at and that were taught in an interesting way (science is maybe the single most fascinating subject in the world but it was taught in a very dull way back when I was at school, especially for the lower-set kids who no effort was spent on in general)

I think it's important we don't just teach kids to think along the lines of the empirical material rationalism Dawkins approach that I think is really primitive from a philosophical stand point. Science and spirituality aren't incompatible. Newton, Einstein and Hawkings certainly did not consider religion "silly". I suggest you read some of Carl Jung's stuff and open your mind a little.

In a lot of ways a limited concept of science and "rationalism" prompted by bigots like Dawkins has replaced the position the Church once held in society to marginalise independent and unorthodox thinkers. You don't have to believe in God to be a fundamentalist.

I actually think your post is ruder than Lawrence's. Religion is a choice, and is therefore fair game for criticisms like "it's silly"- I think that's a perfectly reasonable point. To me, to many others, and apparently Lawrence it does appear absolutely silly and absurd. Science (unless you're a creationist idiot or something stupid like that) deals with facts- surely it makes more sense to give kids facts and let them make their own decisions. Also, a scientific way of thinking comes in useful for everyday life. Science as a school subject should be re-evaluated and be made more interesting because it's fucking beautiful and amazing and needs to stop being something that's feared and only "boffins" understand.

Also, may I point out it seems like every post I've read from you recently has included a reference to being a mod.

I may be the only card carrying anti-religionist on the board it seems. ..
Anyway, I never went to a religious school (I couldn't have been dragged kicking and screaming to one) and RE just used to piss me off. I couldn't stand the hypocrisy of my (very liberal) school teaching me "Ethics" by saying to me "you must respect people's religious beliefs or you're a bad person." then carrying on and elaborating that religion's anti-homosexual stance, or their love of female genital mutilation. Why the fuck should I respect your opinion when it's based on ignorance and superstition and is directly harmful to humans? Isn't that completely UNethical? If people choose to indulge in religion that should be an entirely private and personal matter as far as I'm concerned- I have no interest in your love of Buddy Christ, back off.

Basically, I think religion should only be taught within a context of culture, and never EVER presented as fact. Culture Studies would be a good lesson.

Related story: my sister goes to a church school (because it's on our road and she's too lazy to walk further basically) and one time the priest came in to give an assembly, and told the reception and year one classes about how he was about to slit his wrists with a razorblade but he heard god's voice and that's what saved him.

[newslang]

Most Catholic schools here are funded by the province (along with public schools), so we sort of had a mix of religions in my school... but it was more that we had people who were Catholic, some people that were Christian, and not much else.

That being said, our 11th grade religion course was World Religions so we were taught about other religions and religious tolerance, visited a mosque, hindu temple, and buddist temple, etc... It was definitely the most interesting year of religious studies (I can't remember what the other years were about). My teacher that year was very religious and our school chaplian leader, so he tried to keep our discussions on the side of Catholicism. It was an effective course, though.. if our teacher wasn't having discussions with us, we were all discussing among ourselves. It's pretty pathetic.. it was the first time I had really learned about religions other than catholicism and I was 17!

I had a religion lesson from my cab driver the other night. It was Good Friday and I guess he felt it was a good time to talk to a complete stranger about religion haha

[mimicry]

Apr 5, 2010 18:09:49 GMT Lawrence said:

they should enforce the fact that religion is just silly and teach more science

science suxxx, teach more alchemy

[Aly]

science suxxx, teach more alchemy

Alchemy has a special place in my heart