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Post by nerdmissile on Oct 25, 2009 12:58:28 GMT
I burst out laughing at Battle the first time I heard the album. I sort of think that's what it's for. It's ridiculous and fun and an expression of camaraderie. Albums don't need to be entirely about beauty of expression. Has nobody heard The Knife's "The Cop"?!
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Post by lastgoodbye on Oct 25, 2009 14:15:13 GMT
Okay, Jake. On this thread I tried my hardest to make carefully considered replies which addressed the issues you brought up in your posts. But you completely ignored all the points I made... with replies that basically consisted of sarcasm, cattiness, pedantically pointing out spelling mistakes, and scatterings of "CHILLAX!! Christ! I'll do that your a phsyco lol. lol. lol. How hilarious I'm being trolled HEHEHEHEH WOTEVA LOL IM BEIN BULLIED lol ." I don't consider this "making sense" or "being mature", and it kind of makes me feel like I shouldn't take the time to write a sensible response again to address this all, but I will anyway. In response to Verocs posts, and Jakes posts, and anyone else who has said this recently. People on this forum are not routinely attacked or treated unpleasantly. "so wow how terrible it is for some of us being 'pro patrick'?i mean this is just not right is it?" Can you find the quote where anyone has ever said that? No. I think what you'll find happening is people slating members for not being pro-Patrick enough, and not the other way around. Like when, as Josh correctly pointed out, Jake launched a personal attack on me for being rude about A SONG. It's a song. Yes, I was catty and bitchy and nasty.... about a song. Not about Patrick Wolf fans, not about Patrick Wolf personally. About a song. And in a direct response, Jake, you attacked me. Because I attacked a song. I've been coming here for approaching three years, since I was thirteen years old, and I can tell anyone who may not already know that "massive Patrick fans" and "posters who are fairly indifferent to Patrick's music" have always posted here alongside each other as one community. Yeah, some posters stick to the Community and Common Rooms and don't care about PW news. All they do is occasionally write critiques on Patrick Wolf's music, and behaviour, when it comes to it, and otherwise stay to themselves. But now, apparently, the Patrick Wolf obsessives don't want to have to tolerate this anymore? The worst part is, instead of attacking those people more critical of PW as a whole group, you're excusing some people, and penalizing others as psychos and bullies. Okay, it's your forum. I shall fuck off. That's fine. You - by which I mean, that type of poster - have officially run me out of the sections of this forum which remains intelligent, interesting, rational and lovely, simply because you are so pathetic. I have no desire to stay in a place full of children throwing tantrums. Maybe I will "get the fuck out and start a forum", as was demanded of Josh. It's not such a crazy idea. It wouldn't be the first time a sister-forum has been created because some members were finding the Patrick Wolf fans here too intolerable to post alongside. It's a little bit amusing, because you aren't even attacking and running out a Patrick hater, like it seems you think you are. I love Patrick Wolf's music very much, and always have, and I'm fond of him as a person, too, regardless of how I'm underwhelmed by one of his CDs. I simply don't (or no longer) like him in the irrational, on a pedestal, defending-no-matter-what, licking his shoes and having wet dreams over his hair colour kind of way which is where the bar of Patrick-Wolf-fan-acceptability is set on this forum. Jake. In a couple of year's time, you will grow up. You will realise that the sun does not shine out of Patrick Wolf's backside. You will realise that just because someone doesn't like Patrick Wolf, it isn't a flaw on their personality. You will stop making music which heavily borrows off of Patrick's music, and you will stop imitating his style. You will realise that an attack on a song you like isn't a personal attack on you, and therefore doesn't warrant a personal attack in return. What's more, if you ever read back on your old posts, you will realise how mad and irrational your unquestioned passion for everything Patrick Wolf once made you sound. You'll read back threads and be embarrassed at how you acted. The point is - You will grow up and move on, like I did, and like fan girls and boys always, always do. Then, maybe, you will still feel fond of this forum. You might want to stick around and mainly post in the general sections. You might even want to comment on Patrick Wolf's sixth album, or whatever it will be, and give a critical, level-headed, outsiders perspective, just to add an element of balance to threads - or just because you feel like it. I hope that when this day comes, you are personally attacked, bitched at, sneered at, told that it isn't your forum, told to fuck off, and told that you and your friends are bullies, and real posters don't want you there. That way, things will have gone full cycle, see?
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Post by verocs on Oct 25, 2009 15:27:55 GMT
I am a bit confused here, with these user name changes etc. is that Florence who wrote that? I am not sure but if it is I want to make one point clearer. my post not aimed at you but josh and Sibz (i assume the username zero is her). I thought it was clear but maybe not. so I would like to make it clearer that my comments were meant at those 2 people. to which opinion I stand by, as I do feel that for me they often make this forum very unpleasant place to be and told me on a few occasion to fuck off from it when i disagreed with them. I never said you hate patrick or his music or anything like that if that is Florence or that you unfairly criticised him or that you should leave this forum. I did say that Josh has been often overly critical and unpleasant it and I stand by that as well. his latest post in q+a is a prime example. I also didnt say we should put patrick on a pedestal or lick his boots as i have stated in my post. I would write a much longer response but as I said I am not 100% sure who I am reply too and also I got other things to do. I dont think anyone should be driven off this forum for exercising their opinion in the contrary, as I have experienced being personally attacked, bitched at, sneered at, told that it isn't your forum, told to fuck off on this precise forum. for exactly this reason I got annoyed last night and had a go at josh for telling jake that he should leave. because i feel that josh and sibz often make posts that make other posters unwelcome and belittle them when those posters disagree with them and I felt I had to say something. I am sorry if you have taken in as a personal attack on you it wasnt. so please come back. it was aimed at josh mainly which i fully admit. he might be your friend and I dont know him in person and i admit i only base my opinion of him through the posts he makes here. and although the person he seems to be here I totally dislike I dont wish him to leave but I do wish he wouldnt make homophobic comments and being so nasty to others here.
Vera
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Post by Lemon Bloody Cola on Oct 25, 2009 16:25:48 GMT
Me, homophobic? Because I joke about homosexuality? No I think the word you're looking for is "not precious" about the subject in a righteous earnest BATTLE THE HOMOPHOBE sort of way. You can derive humour from the subject just like any other subject, find one point where I've said homosexuals are less than hetrosexuals or "wrong" or apologise, please
I love flirting with Bushman and Derek on here and I'm very flattered by the jokey flirtatious attentions of gay chaps, total ego stroke, strange behaviour from a homophobe surely? I don't patronise any LGBT person by walking on eggshells around them, anymore than I would anyone, else.
I called Jake a "queen" because, he's a typical teenager-exploring-his-sexuality "look how outrageous i am!" stereotype. It's his persona and statements I'm mocking not his orientation.
Hell, I've been there myself in my leopard print blouse sporting bi curious Manics fan days..
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Post by Elderberry Fucking Fanta on Oct 25, 2009 17:27:59 GMT
posting in an exit-thread sorry that florence felt the need to leave, but so have many other neat people. including josh times ten or so. --- I agree with the one point that Flo made a page or two back about how whereas Battle and Lycanthropy both might hold the same kinds of message, the older song expressed it a lot more eloquently. Screaming child etc.
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Post by verocs on Oct 25, 2009 17:50:27 GMT
you could have said drama queen or stroppy teenager or stuff like that. I thought the term Queen is and offensive slang used as a disparaging term for a homosexual man? also asking patrick if he takes it up the shitter? I find it difficult to see it just being sarcastic and pissing around as you claim it. for me it's a rather rude and homophobic comment.
but maybe it's because when you say something thats' being sarcastic or in jest or pissing around. when it's someone else towards you it's an insult.
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Post by victorinox on Oct 25, 2009 19:09:48 GMT
Lol, forum drama. I concur that Battle has a good message which is pretty poorly executed, especially compared to the more lyrically beautiful pwolf songs. At least, I think it's poorly executed, and clearly not everyone does.-insert statement about freedom to agree/disagree- As much as some of us dislike certain works (coughTheBachelor), undoubtedly, there's still a lot of Patrick-love here.
GUYS, BATTLE THE HOMOPHOBE, NOT EACH OTHER
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Post by sarah on Oct 25, 2009 19:35:01 GMT
more like BATTLE THE HOMOS AMIRITE EHEUEHERHURHAHOAOOOHOHO
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Post by helwin tins on Oct 25, 2009 20:20:31 GMT
hahahah so much fail. vera, you don't seem to be able to accurately recall situations for a start, we've never told you to fuck off so whatever. just because i pick up on other people being stupid or wrong and point it out doesn't make me a bad person, in fact i'm a hell of a lot of a better person than some on here who are loved for being "soooo nice!!!". i always get attacked for this and yet everytime i end up just getting more support from people i didn't know appreciated it when i make points they want to but don't. so get off your high fucking horse and stop being ridiculous. look at this thread! started as a joke, and the "villian" in the situation is made out to be florence, a poster who everyone loves and thinks is an intelligent person (because she is) just for saying she didn't like a song and making a joke at its expense. suddenly a whole load of people have forgotten the times that they bigged her up for being so funny or clever, and the times she defended people when she thought they were being treated badly (which incidently, she does because she's a GOOD PERSON) because she made a joke about a song - how fucking ridiculous and irrational. this forum really needs some perspective sometimes.
also, josh can ask any fucking question he wants, i haven't seen florence's question but it sounds similar to the one i was going to ask, which i want to ask because i genuinely would like to know WHY each album is getting worse (in my opinion) and if this is because of some.. thing that is going to continue or what and if i should just cut my losses now and stop considering myself a fan.
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Post by verocs on Oct 25, 2009 21:52:10 GMT
is this one of those respectful and rational responses you mentioned in the other thread?
firstly I have not driven florence off this board or made her a villian or even said a bad word about her. I have also apologised to her in private because she felt that way. so pease dont try to pin that on me
secondly I'm fed up that every time I disagree or find something you or josh says offensive it's suddenly a joke and I was being stupid or wrong not to understand it.
thirdly yes I was told to fuck off from this forum before which led me to delete my account and leave for a while. It took me quite a bit to come back here
you know I really would like to follow that peace advice that florence gave us on the other thread but only if it goes both ways. and I would respect you and josh as well if it would go both ways and not trying to belittle me in future.
thanks.
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Post by jay on Oct 25, 2009 22:03:39 GMT
that goes the same for me, too. i have, i feel, buried whatever hatchet i have with josh. whether he feels the same or not is another thing, but cool either way.
i still, however, get little snippy jabs at me from your direction, sibz. and i think (actually, it isn't just me that thinks this but let's keep it simple) they're incredibly unjustified and unfair. just what IS your beef with me? i know you think i'm boring, and nice, and smug, but honestly, what's your major bugbear? what did i do to upset you so much? i don't like how uncomfortable things are here because of how you feel about me so let's have it, because i don't want to perpetuate that uncomfy feeling.
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Post by thevoiceofpw on Oct 25, 2009 22:47:15 GMT
Ok.... Im gonna make my OFFICIAL!! statement on this song....
When I was at school, My best friend was a thing called a sony cassette walkman, and when people threw shit at me in class I would excuse myself to the toilet and sit there with a mix tape I made full of 1979 era punk anthems, Sham 69, The Slits, Blondie, X Ray Spex, Bow Wow Wow, check them out... they are amazing inspirational bands...
I would lift my feet up so no one could see i was hiding in the loo and just disappear until it was either lunch break and I could run home or sit in the park. These anarchist anthems really helped me through school, there was no punk attitude in 1997, it was all britpop and glamour, the punk music really helped me develop a survival attitude, alot of these songs lyrics are very simple, and Im aware that battle isn't the most intellectual of songs or the most mature, but back in those days I would promise myself I would never forget the power of the anti-establishment anthems that made me realise my headmaster and my bully was nothing in the grand scheme of the life I wanted to make happen for myself. After three albums of self production, I thought It was time to remember where I have come from and I remembered the old x-ray spex songs that have two or three chords and the most abrasive power ever, they are not nice to listen to but they are empowering when needs be.
When I flew over to alec empires studio, I knew the album was missing an anthem to sing live that I could bring some of the issues that I have to spend most of the day addressing to endless journalists to a song... so that I wasn't just constantly onstage escaping the world into some of the fantasy based lyrics of my earlier work and more positive love based lyrics. I realize I have an audience now that every now and again, depending on the level of conservatism in each country, craves to hear a message of rebellion, I can feel it, Its important to use your "celebrity" to make some kind of positive difference in the world. I stand by the lyrics and always will, they were the kind of lyrics that would have really given me strength when I was 14 years old.....
The production and melody was a collaboration with the genius Alec Empire... I have talked endlessly in interviews about my love for his agenda and music and braveness as a producer.... You are all right to see it as an adolescent rebellion, a naive one, but I hate to break the news to you, but I am probably always gonna stay a child until Im 90, as i get older I love to find a good mixture of wisdom and stupidity....
So, one day, you might find love for this song, Its a song I wrote from 25 year old patrick to 15 year old patrick saying... Don't worry, keep fighting and you will find the freedom and love that you are being denied. Sometimes, there's no need to over analyze music, I wasn't trying to be the new metal rock god... me and alec were just playing with noise and "the electric guitar" certainly a new experiment for me as you well know from my old records...
You see I might go hip hop for album 8.. or Bulgarian folk for album 6... I don't know.. You just got to remember, wherever I may be exploring, my heart goes into every beat, every lyric, every arrangement, every mix and vocal through to every front cover and video... and it's all for you guys, and where there is a song is a story and deeper meaning to what you hear or see on the surface.... thats just how i've always worked.
right.. now really must go, this is super fun being able to discuss my music with you and get to hear your inner voices! I love the way the internet has cut the velvet rope that used to separate artist and audience. Keep discussing the music! I am just so honored you are listening my dears..
xxxx pw
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Post by helwin tins on Oct 25, 2009 22:54:16 GMT
vera: 1. i didn't say it was you specifically, that bit was actually more aimed at jake, as i can recall several situations where florence defended him. 2. having jokes misunderstood is josh's thing, not mine. 3. wasn't that luke? or josh? it wasn't me. also, if you fuck off just because someone told you to, that's ridiculous.
jay - it's more a case of not caring than disliking. anything else i say would be considered too public to be said here (by myself at least)
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Post by jay on Oct 25, 2009 23:01:06 GMT
ah, okies. it's likely mutual then. shall we leave it at that?
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Post by dot on Oct 25, 2009 23:06:55 GMT
Ok.... Im gonna make my OFFICIAL!! statement on this song.... When I was at school, My best friend was a thing called a sony cassette walkman, and when people threw shit at me in class I would excuse myself to the toilet and sit there with a mix tape I made full of 1979 era punk anthems, Sham 69, The Slits, Blondie, X Ray Spex, Bow Wow Wow, check them out... they are amazing inspirational bands... I would lift my feet up so no one could see i was hiding in the loo and just disappear until it was either lunch break and I could run home or sit in the park. These anarchist anthems really helped me through school, there was no punk attitude in 1997, it was all britpop and glamour, the punk music really helped me develop a survival attitude, alot of these songs lyrics are very simple, and Im aware that battle isn't the most intellectual of songs or the most mature, but back in those days I would promise myself I would never forget the power of the anti-establishment anthems that made me realise my headmaster and my bully was nothing in the grand scheme of the life I wanted to make happen for myself. After three albums of self production, I thought It was time to remember where I have come from and I remembered the old x-ray spex songs that have two or three chords and the most abrasive power ever, they are not nice to listen to but they are empowering when needs be. When I flew over to alec empires studio, I knew the album was missing an anthem to sing live that I could bring some of the issues that I have to spend most of the day addressing to endless journalists to a song... so that I wasn't just constantly onstage escaping the world into some of the fantasy based lyrics of my earlier work and more positive love based lyrics. I realize I have an audience now that every now and again, depending on the level of conservatism in each country, craves to hear a message of rebellion, I can feel it, Its important to use your "celebrity" to make some kind of positive difference in the world. I stand by the lyrics and always will, they were the kind of lyrics that would have really given me strength when I was 14 years old..... The production and melody was a collaboration with the genius Alec Empire... I have talked endlessly in interviews about my love for his agenda and music and braveness as a producer.... You are all right to see it as an adolescent rebellion, a naive one, but I hate to break the news to you, but I am probably always gonna stay a child until Im 90, as i get older I love to find a good mixture of wisdom and stupidity.... So, one day, you might find love for this song, Its a song I wrote from 25 year old patrick to 15 year old patrick saying... Don't worry, keep fighting and you will find the freedom and love that you are being denied. Sometimes, there's no need to over analyze music, I wasn't trying to be the new metal rock god... me and alec were just playing with noise and "the electric guitar" certainly a new experiment for me as you well know from my old records... You see I might go hip hop for album 8.. or Bulgarian folk for album 6... I don't know.. You just got to remember, wherever I may be exploring, my heart goes into every beat, every lyric, every arrangement, every mix and vocal through to every front cover and video... and it's all for you guys, and where there is a song is a story and deeper meaning to what you hear or see on the surface.... thats just how i've always worked. right.. now really must go, this is super fun being able to discuss my music with you and get to hear your inner voices! I love the way the internet has cut the velvet rope that used to separate artist and audience. Keep discussing the music! I am just so honored you are listening my dears.. xxxx pw It's nice to see you explain the song and what it's aim was. I think it has made me feel differently towards it, not necessarily like it more or less but see that even though it is probably one of my least favourite of your songs, that it could probably mean a lot to some people. It also made me think why do I not enjoy listening to it as much as your other songs. I think that what draws me away from it is the complexity and beauty that I normally listen for in music. And that perhaps this more simple yet powerful song you've created plays to a feeling I have never experienced. Having been lucky enough to never have been bullied/had a tough time at school I think that maybe that Battle just doesn't relate to me (though obviously I do believe strongly in people fighting homophobia/racism/sexism etc). Anyway to answer the original question, no I don't think battle is the worst song ever written however I don't think it will ever be my favourite song in the world.
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Post by Lemon Bloody Cola on Oct 25, 2009 23:11:51 GMT
that's a really good/interesting defense and it's good Patrick gave it, but I don't think it's anything approaching a good song, on any level sorry.
I honestly really love the first three albums and I don't think the 4th is "bad" I ain't looking to be negative.
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Post by Jazzy Jeff on Oct 25, 2009 23:23:01 GMT
Ok.... Im gonna make my OFFICIAL!! statement on this song.... When I was at school, My best friend was a thing called a sony cassette walkman, and when people threw shit at me in class I would excuse myself to the toilet and sit there with a mix tape I made full of 1979 era punk anthems, Sham 69, The Slits, Blondie, X Ray Spex, Bow Wow Wow, check them out... they are amazing inspirational bands... I would lift my feet up so no one could see i was hiding in the loo and just disappear until it was either lunch break and I could run home or sit in the park. These anarchist anthems really helped me through school, there was no punk attitude in 1997, it was all britpop and glamour, the punk music really helped me develop a survival attitude, alot of these songs lyrics are very simple, and Im aware that battle isn't the most intellectual of songs or the most mature, but back in those days I would promise myself I would never forget the power of the anti-establishment anthems that made me realise my headmaster and my bully was nothing in the grand scheme of the life I wanted to make happen for myself. After three albums of self production, I thought It was time to remember where I have come from and I remembered the old x-ray spex songs that have two or three chords and the most abrasive power ever, they are not nice to listen to but they are empowering when needs be. When I flew over to alec empires studio, I knew the album was missing an anthem to sing live that I could bring some of the issues that I have to spend most of the day addressing to endless journalists to a song... so that I wasn't just constantly onstage escaping the world into some of the fantasy based lyrics of my earlier work and more positive love based lyrics. I realize I have an audience now that every now and again, depending on the level of conservatism in each country, craves to hear a message of rebellion, I can feel it, Its important to use your "celebrity" to make some kind of positive difference in the world. I stand by the lyrics and always will, they were the kind of lyrics that would have really given me strength when I was 14 years old..... The production and melody was a collaboration with the genius Alec Empire... I have talked endlessly in interviews about my love for his agenda and music and braveness as a producer.... You are all right to see it as an adolescent rebellion, a naive one, but I hate to break the news to you, but I am probably always gonna stay a child until Im 90, as i get older I love to find a good mixture of wisdom and stupidity.... So, one day, you might find love for this song, Its a song I wrote from 25 year old patrick to 15 year old patrick saying... Don't worry, keep fighting and you will find the freedom and love that you are being denied. Sometimes, there's no need to over analyze music, I wasn't trying to be the new metal rock god... me and alec were just playing with noise and "the electric guitar" certainly a new experiment for me as you well know from my old records... You see I might go hip hop for album 8.. or Bulgarian folk for album 6... I don't know.. You just got to remember, wherever I may be exploring, my heart goes into every beat, every lyric, every arrangement, every mix and vocal through to every front cover and video... and it's all for you guys, and where there is a song is a story and deeper meaning to what you hear or see on the surface.... thats just how i've always worked. right.. now really must go, this is super fun being able to discuss my music with you and get to hear your inner voices! I love the way the internet has cut the velvet rope that used to separate artist and audience. Keep discussing the music! I am just so honored you are listening my dears.. xxxx pw It's so brilliant to read this! I understand totally where you're coming from, I think there are a lot of things to be said for this song and not just the fact that whenever someone says the word 'battle' it comes into my head (I'm friends with people who play video games. It happens alot.) Anyway yes. I can't really put it better than I agree with what you've said here...and I can't help but at least like every single thing Alec Empire has ever touched musically. He does nothing wrong, ever...and a collaboration between you two was just perfect, and the result in my opinion adds contrast to the album... I probably couldn't sound more rambling if I tried.
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Post by helwin tins on Oct 25, 2009 23:36:40 GMT
that's a really good/interesting defense and it's good Patrick gave it, but I don't think it's anything approaching a good song, on any level sorry. I honestly really love the first three albums and I don't think the 4th is "bad" I ain't looking to be negative. i agree, i liked the quote about 25 year old patrick talking to 15 year old patrick.
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Post by Lemon Bloody Cola on Oct 25, 2009 23:47:00 GMT
A song from 25 year old Josh to 15 year old Josh would probably be entitled "Perhaps Spend Last Time Making up Fantasy Wrestling Events and More Time On School Work"
A snappy instant classic.
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Post by verocs on Oct 25, 2009 23:52:10 GMT
as I have been bullied at school for 2 years (aged 12-14 so it wasnt easy) that post meant a lot to me, thank you patrick I wish I had a sony walkman and loos to hide in but I didnt.
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